Thread: Ivory

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This was exactly what I found also, Poaching and Illegal Ivory trade was a distant cause for the Elephant population decline... hence my very first post that this is a feel good law, that will have little effect on the Elephants lives

Man's Overpopulation of the planet is basically the reason for most of the problems we face either directly or indirectly...

Then again, if we would just stop putting so much effort in killing each other over whose great grandfather killed whose grandfather, whose God is best or where some line used to run on a map, we'd have very little problem supporting the current population.

Even when the human population of the earth was less than a tenth of which it is now, genocide was a common thing. Heck, even in the stone age when you had to put some real effort in finding another tribe and you had to travel long time to just find another populationcenter, did people go out of their way to kill each other. I think it has less to do with over population and more with the fact that as a species, we're just greedy and vindictive bastards.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Then again, if we would just stop putting so much effort in killing each other over whose great grandfather killed whose grandfather, whose God is best or where some line used to run on a map, we'd have very little problem supporting the current population.

Even when the human population of the earth was less than a tenth of which it is now, genocide was a common thing. Heck, even in the stone age when you had to put some real effort in finding another tribe and you had to travel long time to just find another populationcenter, did people go out of their way to kill each other. I think it has less to do with over population and more with the fact that as a species, we're just greedy and vindictive bastards.

It's not that so much as we as humans developed to live in small clans with everyone related and tied to each other. We view everyone outside our clan read family with suspicion and the further away others get from us the more suspicion. We were never designed to live in cities or in close proximity to each other and it's only the thin veneer of society and it's laws that keeps us from exterminating each other. That's why in area of the world you see tribes killing each other and religions battling it out. Anything we can find to categorize someone else as inferior to us or unlikeable is reason enough. Even in countries where the population is relatively homogeneous they always find a way to put down those from this city or region of the country.

However getting back to the original topic of ivory. You will all note primary enforcement responsibility goes to Fish and Wildlife and I know Fish and Wildlife and the chances of them even beginning to do real enforcement of the law is about as great as an Elephant dancing ballet. They simply do not have the money and the manpower to begin to enforce the law. Any enforcement will be very very very limited and you can take that to the bank.

This is another of those laws that get great initial press and then quietly goes away. You will see a few instances widely publicized where they go after some big importer and that's it.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

It's not that so much as we as humans developed to live in small clans with everyone related and tied to each other. We view everyone outside our clan read family with suspicion and the further away others get from us the more suspicion. We were never designed to live in cities or in close proximity to each other and it's only the thin veneer of society and it's laws that keeps us from exterminating each other. That's why in area of the world you see tribes killing each other and religions battling it out. Anything we can find to categorize someone else as inferior to us or unlikeable is reason enough. Even in countries where the population is relatively homogeneous they always find a way to put down those from this city or region of the country.

However getting back to the original topic of ivory. You will all note primary enforcement responsibility goes to Fish and Wildlife and I know Fish and Wildlife and the chances of them even beginning to do real enforcement of the law is about as great as an Elephant dancing ballet. They simply do not have the money and the manpower to begin to enforce the law. Any enforcement will be very very very limited and you can take that to the bank.

This is another of those laws that get great initial press and then quietly goes away. You will see a few instances widely publicized where they go after some big importer and that's it.

What you say may be true on a national level,but far from true in my state.
It was the DFG that Raided Slewinskys auction house in scotts valley last year,confiscated a huge amt of so called preban Ivory artifacts.
You go to any major Gun show,The DFG is always there,Dealer got busted 3 weeks ago at the cal expo gunshow for selling Walrus Ivory.
He may face a $50,000 fine.Friend of mine got busted several yrs back at the San Jose gunshow for selling an antique stuffed ross"es Goose, $600 fine,Is Financial incentives for the DFG to enfource the laws.
Importation has been banned for decades,the new law has nothing to do with importation.

Gibson Guitar Settles Federal Case That Resulted in 2011 Armed Raid; Pays $300,000 Fine - Hit & Run : Reason.com

+ they lost a couple of hundred thousand in wood, ivory and what have you .......

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Gibson Guitar Settles Federal Case That Resulted in 2011 Armed Raid; Pays $300,000 Fine - Hit & Run : Reason.com

+ they lost a couple of hundred thousand in wood, ivory and what have you .......

heheheh... then, Gibson got even....

Gibson.com: Government Series II Les Paul

Somehow reading WWF - Threats to African elephants I do not get the feeling that illegal poaching of elephants is the least of the threats to the decline in elephant populations in Africa. My take away is that it still is a great concern along with other factors such as the encroachment of people in traditional elephant range spawning conflict between the two and for bush meat.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Somehow reading WWF - Threats to African elephants I do not get the feeling that illegal poaching of elephants is the least of the threats to the decline in elephant populations in Africa. My take away is that it still is a great concern along with other factors such as the encroachment of people in traditional elephant range spawning conflict between the two and for bush meat.

Bob

I wouldn't believe what I read in many of the news groups if they said the sky was blue ....... without looking out the window and seeing for myself. The politicians will lie and the media will swear to it.