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Let em have it then, let the west show how weak and unprepared we all are. people are watching and I believe in time there will be hell to pay. The threat of retaliation is a big detterent. But no one is prepared to do anything so therefore there are no repurcussions. This is whats happening right now.
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Originally Posted by Splashone
This isn't other forums, I have confidence that we can disagree in this Convo forum and still agree that we all love SR's in all the others :)
Well, the airplane hijackers on 9/11 were 15 Saudis, 2 from UAE, 1 from Egypt, and 1 from Lebanon. You tell me which of those countries were invaded in retaliation. Yes, I know that you will say that it was Bin Laden behind them and the war in Afganistan was because they refused to extradite him unless US presents evidence of his involvement, but the Bush doctrine of a pre-emptive war got that name because it did not exist previously.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
The fact is that Afganistan did not attack US, and US did not use war as last resort, but rather as first.
Interesting choice - taking issue with where it was published instead of the statement itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I think the world situation be better if we had handled 9/11 as the criminal act that it was rather than glorifying it and its supporters with war/warrior status. Dealing with the taliban, as we did for failure to police and gone home, leaving a stern warning about not making us come back.
Not sure of where the confusion is...
The world was waging a "War on Terror" not on Afghanistan, or Iraq, or even Islam, it was a "Global War on Terror" and most every country in the world agreed that Saddam needed to go..
As to what happened after he was gone, that is the effect when everyone is screaming for the US to get out.. We left no occupying army, and it looks as though Afghanistan will do the same... I feel this was a mistake, an even bigger mistake then the UN deciding that it was a good idea to take Saddam out...
Americans no longer have the stomach for war, neither does the western world, so when diplomacy doesn't work there seems to be a failure of process.. Yes in a perfect kumbaya world we could just talk it out, unfortunately that world doesn't exist on this planet, yet
How easily we all forget even recent history...
Stern Warning ??? interesting choice of words there, considering all the recent "Stern Warnings" that have been given in the latest problems.
IIRC I think a stern warning and a red line warning was given to Syria about the use of Chemical Weapons, that worked out well...
North Korea was given stern warnings about Nuclear weapons development that worked out well
Putin was given stern warnings not to move into Crimea, that worked out well..
When you tell somebody in the street, "Don't or I am gonna knock you out" and they do anyway, you have a choice to make, if you keep drawing a line in the sand as you back up it loses it's effect..
History pretty much has been the same since WW2,
What will the US do ???
The US should step in ???
The US steps in
The world forgets
The world blames the US for stepping in
That is pretty much been the scenario, I think we (US) should let the EU sort it out and back them if and when they ask for help, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen..
President Glen, would have to step back and wait for a dedicated EU to choose a direction before making a decision or even many comments...
I have to say there are good points all through this thread.
How far back are the historians here willing to go? The first Iranian debacle was the US intervening to turn the Kurds into an insurgent force to topple then Iranian PM Mosaddegh and brought back foreign oil firms and eventually the Islamic movement to topple Pahlavi. All that was engineered by Henry Kissinger, who still offers sage advice about how to manage realpolitik to the present clients in the West or anyone with the money to buy it. Kissinger was also responsible for the Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia in the mid 1970's. The Banana Republics...Reagan's Missles for Hostages swap post Carter...Bush One had his hands deep in that as the director of the CIA and the Morgan Guarantee Trust Bank problem. Blackwater...the rise of the dirty war and selling our military contractors to the highest bidder without the burden of taking responsibility or providing them with VA benefits.
But enough, we are doomed to repeat history because we fail to learn from it.
An interesting treatise from 1935: War Is A Racket, by Major General Smedley Butler, 1935
I think the answer to all these problems is simple. There is money to be made. That principle goes so far back in history that it's lost in the fog of war. The present fog is maintained to prevent all of us from seeing it.
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Originally Posted by Mike Blue
That is the real reason for war going back to pre-history "Money" or whatever form of power it was... That is no new concept, War is always about Money in one form or another
In the end I believe that every war since the beginning of time has been over GREED if you dig deep enough. I want what you have and am willing to kill for it. At least that is my thinking. to increase the size of a country is to increase wealth. I believe this is true throughout history. I'm old and say what I think. right or wrong good or bad that's my belief.
We went to Afghanistan and removed a good portion of the (at the time) existing power structure with little cost in man or material to ourselves. We should have then packed up and left. Reminding them that we would be back if they did not keep the training camps shut down.
We can not win "the war on terror." There will always be disaffected individuals that are willing to act in a criminal manner. We rely on other countries to police themselves. We must expect these countries to do the same. Democracy can not be instilled by force nor in a populace that is not ready or understanding its principles (the sectarian issues in Iraq almost assure they need a "strong man" to survive as a unified country). It survives in places where the local populace has shed their own blood in gaining it and has a vested interest in keeping it.
Further our policy of "recognizing" emerging democracies only when we like the principles in the formed government only serves to make us hypocrites.
I was slower typing this than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun