Thread: saber rattling

So I heard one of the Presidents talking heads say it is a “Jobless recovery”. What does that mean? Is that like powdered water, just add water and you have… water.

The only thing recovering is the stock market because we’re pumping money into it.

Did you know? FHA announced on August 15, 2013 that you may only need to wait one year to be able to buy again under the FHA’s Back to Work Program. FHA is willing to back loans for borrowers with as little as 3.50% down payment after having had a short sale, bankruptcy, or foreclosure.

We learned… Nothing, or are we buying votes?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

So I heard one of the Presidents talking heads say it is a “Jobless recovery”. What does that mean? Is that like powdered water, just add water and you have… water.

The only thing recovering is the stock market because we’re pumping money into it.

Did you know? FHA announced on August 15, 2013 that you may only need to wait one year to be able to buy again under the FHA’s Back to Work Program. FHA is willing to back loans for borrowers with as little as 3.50% down payment after having had a short sale, bankruptcy, or foreclosure.

We learned… Nothing, or are we buying votes?

GDP grows - but jobs aren't created.

Its like a factory that puts in cheap and efficient robots. The bottom line grows-they make more money, but contribute to the community less. Good for a co - bad for a nation.

America is very, VERY efficient! Good for GDP but bad for many living under said GDP. Eventually, if it gets too efficient and too many people are out of work, it all implodes. Who's going to buy all that stuff built so cheap?? That is unless the whole economy changes.. And that's not going to happen any time soon here.

Hope that helps??

Originally Posted by earcutter

GDP grows - but jobs aren't created.

Its like a factory that puts in cheap and efficient robots. The bottom line grows-they make more money, but contribute to the community less. Good for a co - bad for a nation.

America is very, VERY efficient! Good for GDP but bad for many living under said GDP. Eventually, if it gets too efficient and too many people are out of work, it all implodes. Who's going to buy all that stuff built so cheap?? That is unless the whole economy changes.. And that's not going to happen any time soon here.

Hope that helps??

As good as any explanation that I have seen for a "jobless recovery". We are stuck in the same situation here too. At one time when stock markets went up so did employment, now there is no such correlation. The S&P 500 is now at higher level than before the 08 crash and burn yet the jobs have not returned to the same or greater levels. The money is being concentrated upwards. If you are in the middle class or lower economically you are screwed for the time being. Just be glad you are not a college/university grad just starting out Generation Screwed - The Bottom Line .

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

As good as any explanation that I have seen for a "jobless recovery". We are stuck in the same situation here too. At one time when stock markets went up so did employment, now there is no such correlation. The S&P 500 is now at higher level than before the 08 crash and burn yet the jobs have not returned to the same or greater levels. The money is being concentrated upwards. If you are in the middle class or lower economically you are screwed for the time being. Just be glad you are not a college/university grad just starting out Generation Screwed - The Bottom Line .

Bob

It stands to reason that in a jobless recovery, that companies are making more money. This generation is screwed .

We live in a changing world and the policies of old don't work any more. I don't care who the pres is be it democrat or republican the result will only be what we have now or worse. Couple that with the polarization in the country and the Congress and it's the perfect recipe for the current situation.

All the typical right wing posturing against Obama doesn't help. In my book the pres has a solution to an issue and implements it and it fails he owns it. When Congress won't allow him to do his job they own the issues(s).

Unfortunately we have a lot of people in this country who have drunk the cool aid and again and again vote against their own interests to act like a bot army for the rich and powerful.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Read the Book Freedoms forge by Arthur Herman,is about how WW2 put millions of people back to work after the depression.
Read the newspaper today about how 10s of thousands of military people are now out of work.
Beall air force base just north of me is phasing out the stealth Bomber program,this is having a negative effect on many thousands of people in the area.
Granted Iran, afghanistan etc has sucked trillions from the federal Govt,but thats only one side of the overall economy in this country.

I understand what you are saying. And national defense IS necessary. But when I say that it's a lost opportunity, it's simply that it doesn't directly bring us goods and services at better prices. We need it because we have to have a secure nation to enjoy what we have. Bit it's investment in the other areas that make our lives better. Those people that were put back to work would have served us better if they were making clothes, appliances, building factories, working in R&D, etc. it's those efficiencies in the economy that make it possible for average people to sit down to dinner and have what would have been considered an absolute feast by yesterday's standards. It's the reason I'm typing this on an iPad and we're able to communicate in this way. While tanks and ships may be necessary, the best we can hope for is some spin off technology as a byproduct of the defense industry. It's valuable and needed but in a perfect world we would be directing those resources to things that make direct contributions to the quality of our lives. Unfortunately the world is not inherently as peaceful as we would like so we employ people to build stealth bombers. And when we make changes to the number of bombers we make, it has an impact on that group of people. The demand for those products are determined by politics and world events instead of the market.

Originally Posted by earcutter

It stands to reason that in a jobless recovery, that companies are making more money. This generation is screwed .

Yea, can't say companies are unprofitable and they are taking the profits and the tax breaks and using this growing capital to invest , as you say, in being more efficient yet, or sit on it, or invest offshore or other things that do not create jobs where they made the profit. They should rename "trickle down economics" to a gravity defying "trickle up economics" if they really wanted to be truthful. Ya bin sucker punched again.

Bob

Originally Posted by earcutter

Yes to getting leaders into power. Propaganda machine works well. And really you only have two choices.

Absolute no as to what makes it in the form of a Bill! Which is all that matters.

Well, the bills are made by the elected officials (or the unelected staff they appoint). Of course, the politicians are not experts and don't know how to solve the problems, but their job is to find those experts and not allow vested interests to create bad policies. That's exactly where they fail, but they do not get punished for making bad policy. They get punished for failing to run a good propaganda machine, especially when they advocate for good policy.
But it is still the voters who provide the feedback, so America is exactly what America wants (the majority of it). Reelection rate in congress is still at essentially 90%, and hasn't dipped under 85% for ages.
It is a systemic problem therefore it isn't going to change anytime soon - the last populist movement was the teaparty and it failed miserably, due to what it looks like rigid ideology which means incompetence.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I understand what you are saying. And national defense IS necessary. But when I say that it's a lost opportunity, it's simply that it doesn't directly bring us goods and services at better prices.

It is lost opportunity only when it is disproportionate. That's where opinions vary, but I don't think anybody here can do the necessary calculations to show which is the case.

You have to compare whether the 'looting' that the US military dominance allows is more than the cost of that dominance. I am using the word 'looting' loosely mostly because it parallels the historical analogues. These days it's not done in the crude old ways, but there certainly is no mistake that the economic dominance in the world of US is propped by its military dominance.
You can't change the world order overnight either, otherwise it would be a disaster which at this point may lead to the end of humans, so things would continue they way they are for quite some time.

Originally Posted by BobH

Yea, can't say companies are unprofitable and they are taking the profits and the tax breaks and using this growing capital to invest , as you say, in being more efficient yet, or sit on it, or invest offshore or other things that do not create jobs where they made the profit. They should rename "trickle down economics" to a gravity defying "trickle up economics" if they really wanted to be truthful. Ya bin sucker punched again.

Bob

Well... I think with emerging markets, trickle down does work (to a degree). When the economy has matured such as Canada's and the US, in today's economic climate, it has proven to not work.

But the generation running things today, went to school when they were still selling it hard for all economy's. Hence in some circles, powerful circles, to debate that dogma is akin to being a commie.

What's worse, those making policy that are rich, are benefiting and couldn't care less for the working poor. They call em lazy. The poor in places of power who are poor with net worth less than a couple million, buy into the notion that they one day will be rich... Its a vicious cycle.

Meanwhile, the facts are that wage desparity is back to the great depression levels... So people protest Wall St. They are called bums and the propaganda machine sells the fools who should be protesting to call for them to be jailed lol!

Then the rich say we need smaller government!! Well if you make that happen, in America anyway, the middle class will disappear. But they have the fools pushing for it!

In an advanced economy, you have to have big gov! Its a function of civilization! Tell me? Can you take the time to run down to the nuclear power plants and tell me if they are dumping heavey water in the river you get your drinking water lol? Nope! We need big gov but... The rich don't.

Its crazy lol!

Edit... Sorry, that turned into a rant. No trickle down doesn't work here, but thinking it does is pushed forward because it benefits the 1%. Oddly enough, the 99% keep buying into it thinking they actually will be rich one day lol!

As history marvels at the German population for being duped, so will future generations marvel at us... Unless education is banned lol! And in America, education is becoming a thing for the few.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I understand what you are saying. And national defense IS necessary. But when I say that it's a lost opportunity, it's simply that it doesn't directly bring us goods and services at better prices. We need it because we have to have a secure nation to enjoy what we have. Bit it's investment in the other areas that make our lives better. Those people that were put back to work would have served us better if they were making clothes, appliances, building factories, working in R&D, etc. it's those efficiencies in the economy that make it possible for average people to sit down to dinner and have what would have been considered an absolute feast by yesterday's standards. It's the reason I'm typing this on an iPad and we're able to communicate in this way. While tanks and ships may be necessary, the best we can hope for is some spin off technology as a byproduct of the defense industry. It's valuable and needed but in a perfect world we would be directing those resources to things that make direct contributions to the quality of our lives. Unfortunately the world is not inherently as peaceful as we would like so we employ people to build stealth bombers. And when we make changes to the number of bombers we make, it has an impact on that group of people. The demand for those products are determined by politics and world events instead of the market.

I disagree,when WW2 started,the entire US automotive industry was shut down along with countless businesses that supplied them.
The factorys,ford, chevy,etc were re-tooled for the war effort and allowed the dis-placed workers to go back to work.
Wars create Jobs that in turn allow people to buy homes and feed themselves.
When the stealth Bomber program ends,it is not just the people that work on them that are effected,it is the mom and pop stores, the taco bell, etc
The ripple effect will be huge in a regeon that already is very poor (Yuba city).
When the military re-locates hundreds of familys,schools will close,the housing market will collapse,many people other than military personal will be out of work and in turn drawing unemployment and welfare,now that drains the economy bigtime.