The world I would love to live in.

yes gugi id like you to find documentation on that statement,, see if you can find out how many enjoy money that they never paid into. I for one have kept up with what I put into SSN I have paid in the max every year for the last 20 years and real close to that for another 20 ,, they have 547,000 of my money and that isn't even considering interest. now at my retiremet receiving 3100 a month do the math on how long I have to live to get mine back, why don't we do the math on hard working individuals who die before they get it. its not those who paid into the system that are draining it financially, I,m wondering what you do for a living that you feel we should be giving our money to a system that gives it to anyone who doesn't want to earn? just my thoughts tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

yes gugi id like you to find documentation on that statement,, see if you can find out how many enjoy money that they never paid into. I for one have kept up with what I put into SSN I have paid in the max every year for the last 20 years and real close to that for another 20 ,, they have 547,000 of my money and that isn't even considering interest. now at my retiremet receiving 3100 a month do the math on how long I have to live to get mine back, why don't we do the math on hard working individuals who die before they get it. its not those who paid into the system that are draining it financially, I,m wondering what you do for a living that you feel we should be giving our money to a system that gives it to anyone who doesn't want to earn? just my thoughts tc

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TC, ck your numbers,I seriously dought you will have put over half a mil into SS in 40 yrs

The guys i work with receive ssi benefits. They work but don't make much, yet pay into SS what they can. They get way more than they will ever be able to put in. They are special needs and need the money to survive and even then it's rarely enough to get by. Five dollars spending money is a lot for them. There are some people who truly abuse the system, but there are also those who truly need it. Our government wastes so much money on silly stuff. Why do politicians make so much? I think it should be like the military for politicians. You get low pay but free room and board for your service. If I'm not mistaken but aren't people paid even after they lose the office or retire?

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

yes gugi id like you to find documentation on that statement,, see if you can find out how many enjoy money that they never paid into. I for one have kept up with what I put into SSN I have paid in the max every year for the last 20 years and real close to that for another 20 ,, they have 547,000 of my money and that isn't even considering interest. now at my retiremet receiving 3100 a month do the math on how long I have to live to get mine back, why don't we do the math on hard working individuals who die before they get it.

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The math is pretty simple:
547/(3.1*12)=14.7 years in retirement before you get back what you put in. I don't know if you include both the social security and the medical costs, but the medical contribution is a quarter the social that gives you about 130k for any medical expenses.
65+14.7~80 so a little before your 80th birthday you'd be turning a 'moocher'.
If you put in the maximum that means you've been earning fair amount above the median so 'regular folk' is putting much less.

Remember the rates that you put in the 60s and the 70s have been significantly lower than today's (roughly half of the current ones in the 60s).

Currently the numbers are 15.3%, so over 45 years you've put in just short of 7 years of your annual incomes. With that you could get back 14 years at half your working life's income, or 21 yeas at a third of your working life's income.

I do fairly complex math for a living (solving partial differential equations in very large number of dimensional spaces) , but please do not put in my mouth words that you only think I've said.

Simple guy here,no math wizard at all,at my currant disbersments I will get back what I paid in in approx 13 yrs.
I will never live long enough to get 3 times as you say of what I paid.

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Originally Posted by mike1011

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As an example, here in Britain we have old people freezing to death in the winter because they can not afford the heating bills. This is not a one off it happens every single year.

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Mike, you make Britain sound like a third world country. Yes, some people die in the winter but there are complex social reasons why this is - inability to pay fuel bills is not one of them. Like any developed nation we have the structure to help those in need - unfortunately there are those who ignore the help or who fall through the net for other reasons.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Gun control is off the table. Firearms in general are not.

If the US gov didn't give every "undocumented" worker's USA newborn baby citizenship, all kinds of $ out of Medicare and social security to the flood of immigrants ........ the trust fund would be fine. First of all it is solvent until years from now, and if they didn't dip into the funds to pay for all kinds of extraneous stuff, bridges to nowhere and the like .... if it was just used to pay SS to people who paid in for their working life it would be fine.

When I went down to the SS office in my county I expected to see a bunch of gray heads like mine. Instead it was standing room only with a bunch of young, relatively speaking, people applying for SSI. One guy I know who gets a hot $747.00 per month from SS, and that is his only income, applied for state assistance with Medicaid. He was denied. He makes too much money.

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The U.S Govt doesn't GIVE children of undocumented aliens anything. It's the law of the land and always has been. Anyone born in the U.S is a citizen of the U.S. The only exception applies to foreign diplomats stationed in the U.S and even they can get permanent residence status if they want.

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Originally Posted by UKRob

Mike, you make Britain sound like a third world country. Yes, some people die in the winter but there are complex social reasons why this is - inability to pay fuel bills is not one of them.

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I'd have to dissagree, fuel poverty in Britain is a very real thing and effects thousands of people. The £100 or so extra that old people get in the winter does not come close to covering the actual cost.

We are not of cause a third world country which makes it all the more sad that we allow, for whatever the reasons our old to freeze to death in their homes.

Part of the problem is when folks put money into SS in the 1960s and 1970s the money was at cost of living rates then and now they look back and say it was peanuts relative to what they get back when they retire. In those years if someone made say 8 grand which was a good living in the 70s SS contributions were very little by present day figures. The calculation should index all the payments made but it doesn't

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

First of all it is solvent until years from now, and if they didn't dip into the funds to pay for all kinds of extraneous stuff, bridges to nowhere and the like .... if it was just used to pay SS to people who paid in for their working life it would be fine.

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It is solvent because current workers pay 15.3% of their earnings, while many of those who draw used to put in less than 10% when they worked. A system where the tax rate has to constantly go up is not sustainable because there is a limit of how high the tax rate can go. And unsustainable system will eventually have to change, the only issue is that the longer you wait to make the change the more dangerous the transition.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

When I went down to the SS office in my county I expected to see a bunch of gray heads like mine. Instead it was standing room only with a bunch of young, relatively speaking, people applying for SSI. One guy I know who gets a hot $747.00 per month from SS, and that is his only income, applied for state assistance with Medicaid. He was denied. He makes too much money.

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747*12 ~9k/year Being in prison, if I'm not mistaken, costs over 30k/year so in many cases it's far cheaper to give people something that they don't deserve than put them in a position where they'll 'earn' something expensive.