Thread: Bah! News like this makes me sick!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032300284.html

Alcohol and tobacco worse than marijuana and Ecstasy? What is this world coming to ? It seems to me the study is flawed by stating that tobacco and alcohol are more harmful than the afore mentioned drugs. I think part of this has to do with alcohol and tobacco being a lot more commonplace than illicit drugs. If marijuana or ecstasy were legalized and became widely used, as much as tobacco and alcohol, I fear they would have a far more negative impact on society than anything else!

Sorry, just my rant for today, but I remain convinced that drugs are illegal for a GOOD reason.

It's quite a contentious report, but bear in mind the Lancet is very well respected, equivalent to JAMA over on your side. I.e. has been put together by medical profs and peer-reviewed (more importantly!) by similar.

Having completed part of med school some time ago (boy.... we're talking some time ago now) and with a wife who's a GP, our view is sympathetic towards some of the suggestions in this study. It is an impossible argument, but it's not as simple as assuming illicit drugs are more dangerous just by dint of fact that they're illegal. E.g. death due to alcohol and alcohol-related incidents is more common than any other drug, illicit or otherwise.

There is also the social stigma of drug abuse (ruins lives, tears families apart, physical damage, psychological damage, etc.) and you'd be right to point to those factors as why some drugs remain illiegal. But guess what? I believe alcohol has exactly the same social effects on many: ask any alcoholic!

One final question for you, Howard. You say "I remain convinced that drugs are illegal for a GOOD reason." So how do you explain drugs that were illegal, but are no longer illegal. Have they somehow changed in chemical structure in the intervening period? Have humans become impervious to their effects in that time? Are the social outcomes different now?

I am of course referring to alcohol -- prohibition of yesteryear, and its availability and status today.

Ecstacy, no, I can't imagine that has long time effects lesser than alcohol or nicotine. I've read that over time, Ecstacy destroys the brains ability to benefit from endorphins, making it hard for users to get excited about most normal things.

Marijuana, I would go out on a limb here and say that yes, I believe legalizing this would be a good thing. 1st, in the US we have more people in jail than any place on earth per capita. 2nd, people don't have drunk driving accidents when high. In fact, they are hyper aware when driving. 3rd, marijuana doesn't have the beligerant/abusive effect on people when they are high, they actually become more sociable, not less. You rarely see a pot-head want to fight. So, in these ways, I would replace alcohol with marijuana in a heartbeat as a 'replacement' for alcohol which ruins so many lives.

On the downside, aside from the obvious lung issues, it really does a job on your short term memory. Take this from someone who did his fare share in college, and now only sparks up at the odd Steely Dan, Phish or James Taylor concert...

Marijuana has less of a potential for addiction than alcohol or tobacco. This is not to say that you cannot become an addict (I've met a few) but the habit is more difficult to acquire and easier to kick than the other two. Alcohol also stimulates aggressive tendencies more than marijuana or just about any other depressant (which is a kind of a paradox, once you put some thought into it).
Exctacy is extremely dangerous for those who take it. I have seen a guy who popped a knee and kept on dancing and jumping around. They had to get the ambulance for him the next day. However, it's not widely available, so it has less of an impact on the society in general.

I don't know much about ecstasy so I'll refrain from that one but hemp was used by the us and state governments heavily up to and including WWII and even later.

The drug hemp, marijuana, has been proven in properly conducted studies, to have medicinal properties and was used as such for years in the u.s. until the pharmaceutical companies launched a political campaign to ban hemp along side other natural drugs that had already been banned, such as opium, cocaine, etc. all of which had been used in historical apothecary for pain killers, anti-depressants, etc.

The trouble with marijuana, and ANY plant based medicine, is that the companies cannot patent, trademark, or otherwise reserve rights to the plant. They have to try to isolate the part of the plant that does what they want then patent any and all extraction methods. Trouble with that is, not all plants work effectively when reverse-engineered.

Marijuana, as with many plants, is one of nature's prefab chem labs. put the right environment along with the right botanical skills and you get a high quality product that, when reverse engineered and taken apart, doesn't do so hot.

So, the drug companies can't extract part of the plant to do what they want, so they don't waste the R&D and political "donations" to push a product that every other company will be able to duplicate within weeks of it hitting the market. Instead, they worked with other companies to make the world think it's a horrible thing. The logging industry jumped on this band wagon so they could get rid of hemp products cutting in on their market.

Did you know that marijuana isn't carcinogenic until it's burned (smoked)? Did you know that the effects on the motor skills of marijuana are less severe than many alcoholic beverages on the market and while the calming effect lasts longer, the motorskills return faster than with alcohol? Did you know that marijuana can slow down, and in some cases stop, the effects of many auto-immune diseases such as multiple sclerosis and others? Did you know that hemp can be used in rope, paper, clothes, filters, and many other products? Did you know that hemp products are generally sturdier and typically last longer than cotton or wood based products? Did you know that you can grow hemp faster than trees and just as fast as cotton, so it's a much better resource than trees and cotton? Did you know that when marijuana hemp was outlawed, so was non-marijuana hemp?

It's just as illegal to grow hemp that has no THC content as it is to grow marijuana hemp. Permits CAN be obtained to grow hemp for textiles, but it's costly and the constant inspections and excessive rules and regulations make many potential hemp farmers bail out because they can't recognize a return like they should.

Alcohol, on the other hand, can destroy your liver, kidneys, brain, intestines, heart, etc. etc. etc.

I don't use marijuana but I don't think doctors and patients should be denied a viable medicine.

I think recreational drug use of any kind is a bad thing but on the whole, marijuana is no more dangerous a recreational drug than alcohol and it has less deadly side effects.

If the u.s. would tax recreational marijuana like they've done alcohol and cigarettes, and come up with a breath test for pot, they could make a killing on weekend party animals looking to waste their money. Now there's a thought. Fund the war on terror by legalizing and taxing recreational marijuana.

Another benefit of hemp is the oil extracted from the seeds (regardless of the variety, the seeds do not contain THC). It can be used for food, polymers and biodiesel production.

the medical marijuana is just a stalking horse for the legalize pot groups.
yes it does reduce nausia, but so does pharacutical grade THC suppositories and the dose rate is more controlled. I used to be in the army and a long haul driver and had to deal with stoners. I can tell you that you are NOT a better driver when stoned, like being drunk, you just think you are.
besides, through genetic engineering (selective breeding) todays herb has way more THC in it than the stuff we smoked in the 60s and 70s.

I don't advocate toking and driving. On those rare occasions when I did toke, I made sure I took enough time for the effects of it to wear off (and then some) before I sat down behind the wheel. I am against driving while incapacitated by anything, whether it's a legal drug, an illegal drug, illness, injury, agitated mental state or fatigue.
Marijuana has medicinal properties, but so does just about any chemical. A glass of wine a day's good for your heart, but 3-4 bottles a day will destroy your liver. A cigarette helps get the bowels moving, but smoking a few a day is bad for your heart/lungs. 81mg a of aspirin a day will reduce the risk of heart attacks but 500mg a day will destroy your stomach lining. Therefore, my take on marijuana is that it's a bit less harmful than tobacco/alcohol and should be legalized as a recreational drug.

Originally Posted by Howard Newell

... I remain convinced that drugs are illegal for a GOOD reason.

I believe the ONLY reason marijuana became illegal was because the logging industry lobbied hard to have the competition of abundant hemp stocks taken out of the equation. BAD for all of us because we're losing our forests rapidly. I'm sure the pharmaceuticals got on board later t6o keep it so, FUD.

Cigarettes are the worst evil out there. My father has COPD and has been informed the marijuana is fine, but the cigarettes have to go if he doesn't want his condition to worsen.

According to MPP, the greatest harm exhibited by marijuana use is prison.

A glass of beer or wine daily is very good for your health and has been for millennia. Overindulgence is where things get bad.

In determinations about the 'goodness' or 'badness' of a thing we must be sure to detach ourselves from puritanical prejudice and look only to the facts without the fog of emotional attachment. (hell I sound like Spock)

X

I approach the whole marijuana debate from a whole different angle. I used to be a speed freak. I got to speed because I needed something to wind me up after getting stoned. after a while the pot dropped out and the speed was the reason for being. because of the bitch of a time I had getting that particular monkey off my back I take a dim view of recreational pharmaceuticals.
I enjoy an occasional cigar and glass of wine/scotch/martini/beer or vodka, but the key is moderation, but moderation is not something most people practice with anything