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Thread: What is wrong with America
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11-21-2014, 03:51 PM #151
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Thanked: 3227The uniform belt buckles of those carrying out "The final Solution" had "Gott Mit Uns" on them. Religion always seems to be involved in sanctifying the actions of virtually any side in a war. If religion is not direct cause then it usually has a supporting role. Pretty difficult to separate religion from war.
BobLife is a terminal illness in the end
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11-21-2014, 03:55 PM #152
Hitler needed an excuse to establish the type of government he wanted,,,, he chose a people (a religion) he could demonize & one that he thought he could defeat. Many of the millions he exterminated could not be assigned a religion,,, so he tagged them with other labels.
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11-21-2014, 04:23 PM #153
I think I've said this before however I'll say it again.
This is much more fundamental than religion. It goes to the nature of the Human Animal. Humans developed to live in small tightly knit social groups with everyone related in one way or another. Encounters with other groups usually didn't have good outcomes. Humans rightly viewed outsiders with mistrust, fear and suspicion. That is hardcoded into our DNA. As world population grew folks were forced to live closely to others and it's only our social customs and governments and laws and yes, religion that allows the world community to exist. But even with this coexistence we still look for differences among people and reasons to mistrust and hate and kill others. Even in highly uniform cultures people always find a reason to think they are superior to the folks in the south or on the east side of town for any number of reasons real or imagined.
When government breaks down these old behaviors come to the fore as you see all over the world. Even with all the mechanisms in place we still have conflicts on an ongoing basis and every so often the entire world order breaks down. Increasing world population and poverty and food shortages and climate factors will only make things worse.
I do not see a rosy future for humans.
So, no matter your opinion on religion it's just another way to separate folks and vilify and demonize them and if it suits your agenda simply liquidate them.No matter how many men you kill you can't kill your successor-Emperor Nero
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11-21-2014, 06:50 PM #154
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11-21-2014, 07:45 PM #155
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Thanked: 13246
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11-21-2014, 08:03 PM #156
Again, I won't try to deny that governments have used religion in their "justification" for the wars they've waged. But I would challenge that the motivation lied more in that of pillaging their adversaries and obtaining wealth than religion. And of course the obligatory mentioning of the Vatican had to be offered up as these conversations normally see. But the most liberal estimates of deaths related to the crusades is ~3M. A lot of what they fought for was land and control of the Mediterranean. But even to concede all of that to religion, it doesn't even compete with the death toll of WWI alone. And that's just war. What of the genocide we've seen without war? The millions that died withing the Soviet Union by Stalin? Cambodia? China? North Korea? Civil wars (ours included)? Even Hitlers motivations were not religious but racial. Just look at the millions of Pols that died in his camps.
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11-21-2014, 08:12 PM #157
Lets face it. Hitlers motivations were racial. The Germans had an entire hierarchy of the races and the place they would hold in the world after the war was over. Jews needed to be exterminated along with some others. Many of the other Western Europeans would be workers or slaves for the more superior races. Many of their victims were of the same faith. It was not religious. It was racial.
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11-21-2014, 08:50 PM #158
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Thanked: 3227Yes, mostly racially motivated with an overwhelming nod to a particular religion as an identifier. Also included were political opponents including clergy, gypsies, the mentally deficient, criminals and just plain anyone the regime wanted rid off. Religion is always in the mix somewhere to a greater or lesser extent.
BobLife is a terminal illness in the end
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11-21-2014, 09:38 PM #159
It was racial but that wouldn't been enough to get majority of germans behind his mission. Religion was a good excuse to get the job done.
And that is how it's going even today. Your leaders make you want to do something either a) for your religion or b) against some other religion.
c) or both. And that is how it's always been.
Even as an agnostic i really lean to understand more and more of those who look more after our original religions and paganic beliefs.
They were not so much about almighty deity but about various values we tend to respect and follow in our lives. Those old stories were just to give those values a living example. You do not need an almighty god or allah to have moral and the sense of good and bad. But if you want to have something like that to explain your actions, it's ok as well.
We are responsibile of our lives and acts. We cannot hide behind gods because gods tend to make mistakes too.Last edited by Sailor; 11-21-2014 at 09:41 PM.
'That is what i do. I drink and i know things'
-Tyrion Lannister.
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11-21-2014, 09:44 PM #160
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Thanked: 1587I thought it was eugenics, plain and simple, with a hefty whack of anti-semitism and just overall hate mixed in.
Did you know Charles Darwin's cousin, Sir Francis Galton, was the father of eugenics? Darwin himself was said to be a supporter of the idea, as were many of the leading thinkers of the time. Of course I'm not sure they condoned the brand that the Nazis developed but then I am sure that scientists working on early nuclear stuff never condoned the brand that gave us Nagasaki and Hiroshima either.
James.<This signature intentionally left blank>