Abstinence only education?

Sorry guys, I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought it was a bigotted or crazy idea. I'm just curious - I've heard of it, but never really understood how it played out in practice.

Personally, my wife and I were together 10 years before we were married. We're now coming up to 9 years of marriage. We met when I was 18. We didn't practice abstinance, just monogomy.

However, while I agree that the failsafe approach to stds, unwanted pregnancy etc is abstinance, I also think you need the saftey net for those who choose not to abstain. As for whether these things should be taught with a moralistic spin, I'm definitely not qualified to judge on that one. All I do know is that kids today are quick to spot inconsistancies between what you say and what you do...

James.

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Originally Posted by Kentriv

I am sure other cultures have other religions with similar practices, though I currently can't name any off the top of my head other than Judaism.

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Islam, too.

Islam permits polygamy, though, a major difference from Judaism and Christianity. Judaism tends to frown on it strongly; the Old Testament never bans it explicitly and indeed presents several notable examples of its practice, however usually they are demonstrated to have negative repercussions. I cannot think of any sects where it is prevalent in modern Judaism. Perhaps they formally banned the practice in an extra-biblical work, I don’t know. Christianity does not permit the practice.

Most cultures traditionally favor monogamy, if for no better reason than that that caring for the children that inevitably results from intercourse in a time before birth control proves cumbersome. There have been notable exceptions, as well as double standards. Often in strongly patriarchal societies, fidelity and premarital abstinence has been required of women, but not of men.

- Michael

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Sorry guys, I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought it was a bigotted or crazy idea. I'm just curious - I've heard of it, but never really understood how it played out in practice.

Personally, my wife and I were together 10 years before we were married. We're now coming up to 9 years of marriage. We met when I was 18. We didn't practice abstinance, just monogomy.

However, while I agree that the failsafe approach to stds, unwanted pregnancy etc is abstinance, I also think you need the saftey net for those who choose not to abstain. As for whether these things should be taught with a moralistic spin, I'm definitely not qualified to judge on that one. All I do know is that kids today are quick to spot inconsistancies between what you say and what you do...

James.

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No, don't worry; I don't think it came across that way at all. I think Matt was simply observing that the notion of Christians refraining from being “unequally yoked” with non-Christians often seems to be rather hard line at first glance. It is, ultimately, a matter of practicality: if two people have drastically different and incompatible views, a union is just a setup for failure. I should point out, however, that if one member of a non-Christian marriage converts, they are strongly encouraged to remain with their spouse. The “unequally yoked” idea is not a universal constraint, nor is it a consideration applicable at all times.

I do hope that I don’t sound too fanatical myself; it is not my intent to judge others in my babbling here. I simply aim to attempt to explain how these matters are approached from a Christian perspective, and present the ideals which we try to achieve. We do not succeed in achieving them. Only one person ever has. I pointed out earlier real standard of sexual purity. God concerns himself with a man’s heart far more than his actions; the actions are merely the outward symptoms of the condition of the heart. How would everyone compare if the veils of flesh and outward appearances were stripped away and we all stood naked, as we truly are? All the handicaps that hindered one, removed; the hypocrisy of another, revealed? If we toured Heaven, and considered who we found there and who we did not, there would certainly be surprises.

I do agree on the need to provide a safety net of knowledge for those who chose not to abstain. Should education have a moralistic spin? I doubt the authority of schools to provide moral education. In public schools especially, we would never all agree on what that was. In a general sense, almost everyone can recognize “right” from “wrong,” but when we get to particulars, our moral compasses need tuning, and we aren’t all using the same set of instructions. And as you said, “All I do know is that kids today are quick to spot inconsistancies between what you say and what you do...”

More is caught than taught.

-Michael

:OT
Wow, have I been babbling a lot. I need to stop coming here after midnight, I get in these sleep deprived rants and develop a serious case of diarrhea of the keyboard. It is now 5:30a.m. locally. :eek: Thank goodness I don’t have to go in to work until 5:00p.m. tomorrow. My sincerest apologies to all I have bored and forced to make excessive use of the their scroll bar…:w
-Michael

Not at all Michael - It's been very interesting. I like to learn about other people's thoughts on this sort of stuff.

Anyway mate, sounds like you've been awake for ages - I just got back to Australia from the UK, and I don't sleep on planes. So that's ....um....about 40 hours I've had with no sleep - it's a wonder either of us can even type!

James.

Wow, you two have been up for a while.

Michael was absolutely correct, I didn't feel at all that you had implied the practice might be bigoted. It is just that about every time I have explained it in the past, people have felt that is was bigoted. People in the US are very sensitive about religion. No body wants to hear about your beliefs or to tell you about their beliefs.
Im not sure why the US is like this, but I have heard Europe is very different, and much more open about such things. Is Australia similar, James?

Aside from the religious point of view, there seems to be a growing number of people who do it because they don't like the idea of many partners. I've talked to people who regret their 4 or 5 partners. To me, it's just the smart thing. I'm a jealous guy, and had my fiance not been a virgin, I would have been extremely jealous. I suppose I would've gotten over it, but there'd always be that lingering "am I as good as that guy?".

That's my two cents...

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Originally Posted by Kentriv

People in the US are very sensitive about religion. No body wants to hear about your beliefs or to tell you about their beliefs.
Im not sure why the US is like this,?

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I little kidding on the square here: but I think it might have something to do with the Jehovas witnesses and the Mormons. The only time you really here about anyones beliefs it is from some nut who knocked on your door in the middle of dinner and now you can't get rid of them. I am afraid anyone who genuinely admits that they are religious automatically gets lumped in with these unpleasant people as they are many peoples only exposure to the Christian Faith.


If I have offended anyone of these two faiths, I do apologize but one of your brethren told my wife rudely the other day that she was destined for hell because she though a Christian wasn't following his specific sect. She almost had to set the dogs on him to get him to leave even after this gross insult. Anyone like that falls into the nut category for me despite my being fairly open and willing to discuss my beliefs and the Christian faith with anyone.

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Originally Posted by Kentriv

Wow, you two have been up for a while.

Michael was absolutely correct, I didn't feel at all that you had implied the practice might be bigoted. It is just that about every time I have explained it in the past, people have felt that is was bigoted. People in the US are very sensitive about religion. No body wants to hear about your beliefs or to tell you about their beliefs.
Im not sure why the US is like this, but I have heard Europe is very different, and much more open about such things. Is Australia similar, James?

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Well, it's hard to say Mat. It depends who you hang out with. I'd like to think that we are generally a quite religiously tolerant country - all religions, not just Christianity - as, for a small country, we are quite culturally diverse. Of course, we started (western) life as a predominantly Christian society - don't know what the mix is now.

However, the Christian right over here is, in the main, treated with suspicion and dare I say a bit of contempt - "we don't mind if people have their views, just don't shove them down our throats". Unfortunately, as I understand it, a lot of the Christian right movements are evangelical in Australia, so they tend to get in people's faces a bit, and the whole thing gets a bad wrap. So it's probably a bit like the US in that respect.

As an example, I was brought up strongly Anglican (Episcopalian - is that the right term in the US?). I even strongly considered joining the church as a minister when I left high school. However, my life took a different turn (another story for another time). Anyway, my mother is still heavly involved in our local church. About 5 years ago a new group of people began going to her church - they spoke in tongues and rolled around on the floor a bit etc, and overnight about half the congregation stopped going. The more "traditional" christians like their religion formal, organised, and prescribed over here...

Sorry, now I'm rambling on too - "JET LAG SUCKS!"

James.

Coming from the Orthodox Christian background, which in fact is more liberal than Catholicism and its offshoots in the States, I wasn't planning on abstinence before marriage.
Once I got into a public HS here in Canada, in gym class, we had an optional health portion that dealt with sex. It gave some basics on proper use of protection and risks of pregnancy and STDs. It was mentioned that abstinence is the only 100% safe way.
This helped me learn the basics of safe sex for when I decided that I was ready. In monogamous relationships, I've used a condom every time until we got tested for STD's at least 6 months from our last sexual encounters with other people and then I made sure the gf in question would be taking the pill properly. The class saved me from unplanned parenthood and getting stuck with a wrong woman. It also saved me from catching STDs as I've also been avoding the dirties and sex outside of monogamous relationships.
The bottom line is that no matter how you try to educate the kids, some will have sex. Abstinence only education would leave them defenseless.