Thread: Abstinence only education?

Wow, you two have been up for a while.

Michael was absolutely correct, I didn't feel at all that you had implied the practice might be bigoted. It is just that about every time I have explained it in the past, people have felt that is was bigoted. People in the US are very sensitive about religion. No body wants to hear about your beliefs or to tell you about their beliefs.
Im not sure why the US is like this, but I have heard Europe is very different, and much more open about such things. Is Australia similar, James?

Aside from the religious point of view, there seems to be a growing number of people who do it because they don't like the idea of many partners. I've talked to people who regret their 4 or 5 partners. To me, it's just the smart thing. I'm a jealous guy, and had my fiance not been a virgin, I would have been extremely jealous. I suppose I would've gotten over it, but there'd always be that lingering "am I as good as that guy?".

That's my two cents...

Originally Posted by Kentriv

People in the US are very sensitive about religion. No body wants to hear about your beliefs or to tell you about their beliefs.
Im not sure why the US is like this,?

I little kidding on the square here: but I think it might have something to do with the Jehovas witnesses and the Mormons. The only time you really here about anyones beliefs it is from some nut who knocked on your door in the middle of dinner and now you can't get rid of them. I am afraid anyone who genuinely admits that they are religious automatically gets lumped in with these unpleasant people as they are many peoples only exposure to the Christian Faith.


If I have offended anyone of these two faiths, I do apologize but one of your brethren told my wife rudely the other day that she was destined for hell because she though a Christian wasn't following his specific sect. She almost had to set the dogs on him to get him to leave even after this gross insult. Anyone like that falls into the nut category for me despite my being fairly open and willing to discuss my beliefs and the Christian faith with anyone.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

I little kidding on the square here: but I think it might have something to do with the Jehovas witnesses and the Mormons.

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons each have, uh, unique beliefs that don’t mesh very well with those of other faiths that call themselves “Christian.” I know I’m treading dangerous water here, but let me put it this way: I have attended Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches so far in my life. I am involved with an interdenominational Christian organization on campus. Often members of one denomination disagree with the views, beliefs and interpretations of another denomination. In the case of the Catholic/Protestant spit the disagreements can be points of major doctrinal contention and the arguments can be quite heated. However, at the end of the day, all but the most bigoted individuals can agree that, while they may still feel that their opponents are in grave error, other denominations are still fundamentally Christian. I have never encountered anyone who felt that Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormonism where Christian faiths other than those who practice them. My own (limited) examination of the doctrines of these faiths supports this observation.

If I have offended anyone, it is not my intent. I can only present things as I see them. Please feel free to PM me if you have evidence that can show me this assessment is erroneous, I will happily review it and change my opinion if that is the case.

-Michael

I will definately commend you gentlemen for
keeping this topic very civil. I speaks very
highly of all those who have posted comments....


Terry

Abstinence only is theoretically the only surefire way to avoid sexual issues of all kinds including STD, unplanned pregnancy and sometimes broken hearts. Abstinence only is also THE least effective manner of avoiding all those problems in practice. There is no denying human nature and when people start turning into young adults they're GONNA have sex. Not all of them and not all the time, but it'll happen. Trying to avoid it is living your life with your head in the sand. Facing it and teaching about it will help them make the best choice.

Abstinence only and even abstinence centred education based on religious or moral imperatives is the wrong thing to do in my opinion. One of the reasons our kids are having sex earlier is that they are not exposed to it as an acceptable topic, their sexuality as a natural process and their drives and desires as a good thing. Here's the part where I introduced the so far unmentioned separation of chuch and state. I have my beliefs and you have yours. Noone can be persecuted for failing to comply with the dominant religion or sect of the day. This is not only as it should be, but as it must for a progressive and free society. With this as a framework for education, my god, your gods, anybodies gods and the doctrines they follow should be left at the front door of their temple. If a parent or religious community wishes to stress abstinence inside the confines of their community, I'm all for letting that happen, but our kids and our society need all the information they can get to make the best decisions in their lives. That's what public education is for. It helps us all as a larger group, inclusive of all denominations or lack therof.

I would like my kids to have all that information and I will encourage them not to feel insecure or 'dirty' about their budding sexualities. There is a natural progression to life and I don't want my childrens' progress impeded by somebody else's moral, religious imperatives. I will however, encourage my kids not to rush themselves. There are so many adolescent pressures that get pushed around like dangerous drug use and other criminal behaviour. Having sex would be a relatively small concern. Unprotected sex would worry me. Teach them everything. Give them a strong sense of themselves and community awareness, support them when they need it and let them be when they need to start flying from the nest. Tell them you'll worry if they drink, but make sure they feel comfortable enough to call home for a drive if they've indulged. Hard choices sometimes, but I'm convinced they're the right ones to make. Try to put a teenager in a box and all you get is a broken box.

X

X


Basically all the digression into religion was just off topic. I feel that the best way to teach sex ed is to make the decision as a society to represent abstinence or at least dedicated monogamous relationships as the societal norm. It has nothing to do with religion though that is the original reason for this stance it is now a safety imperative if we are to stop the spread of diseases that hurt society as a whole. That doesn't mean that we need to or should ignore instruction in the proper use of protective measures, in fact this is necessary if we are to provide a compete and useful education and incidentally stop said diseases.

It is also those who are the most secure in themselves who are the most likely to heed such instruction, they are more likely to conform to societies norms rather than feel compelled to buck them just to try to "prove" themselves.

My own feelings on this matter come not as much from my religious upbringing as from the way I was taught sex ed. It gave no weight to different methods only instruction in their use and a vague feeling that the whole subject was bad and mysterious. It should be taught in a way that offered sensible priorities to the available options, guidance in the ideal direction (abstinence), and clear open communication.

X and Wildtim - no disagreement from me on these things. The religion discussion was purely my curiosity. I seem to have a knack for off topic-ing threads

James.

Originally Posted by Kentriv

Wow, you two have been up for a while.

Michael was absolutely correct, I didn't feel at all that you had implied the practice might be bigoted. It is just that about every time I have explained it in the past, people have felt that is was bigoted. People in the US are very sensitive about religion. No body wants to hear about your beliefs or to tell you about their beliefs.
Im not sure why the US is like this, but I have heard Europe is very different, and much more open about such things. Is Australia similar, James?

Well, it's hard to say Mat. It depends who you hang out with. I'd like to think that we are generally a quite religiously tolerant country - all religions, not just Christianity - as, for a small country, we are quite culturally diverse. Of course, we started (western) life as a predominantly Christian society - don't know what the mix is now.

However, the Christian right over here is, in the main, treated with suspicion and dare I say a bit of contempt - "we don't mind if people have their views, just don't shove them down our throats". Unfortunately, as I understand it, a lot of the Christian right movements are evangelical in Australia, so they tend to get in people's faces a bit, and the whole thing gets a bad wrap. So it's probably a bit like the US in that respect.

As an example, I was brought up strongly Anglican (Episcopalian - is that the right term in the US?). I even strongly considered joining the church as a minister when I left high school. However, my life took a different turn (another story for another time). Anyway, my mother is still heavly involved in our local church. About 5 years ago a new group of people began going to her church - they spoke in tongues and rolled around on the floor a bit etc, and overnight about half the congregation stopped going. The more "traditional" christians like their religion formal, organised, and prescribed over here...

Sorry, now I'm rambling on too - "JET LAG SUCKS!"

James.

Coming from the Orthodox Christian background, which in fact is more liberal than Catholicism and its offshoots in the States, I wasn't planning on abstinence before marriage.
Once I got into a public HS here in Canada, in gym class, we had an optional health portion that dealt with sex. It gave some basics on proper use of protection and risks of pregnancy and STDs. It was mentioned that abstinence is the only 100% safe way.
This helped me learn the basics of safe sex for when I decided that I was ready. In monogamous relationships, I've used a condom every time until we got tested for STD's at least 6 months from our last sexual encounters with other people and then I made sure the gf in question would be taking the pill properly. The class saved me from unplanned parenthood and getting stuck with a wrong woman. It also saved me from catching STDs as I've also been avoding the dirties and sex outside of monogamous relationships.
The bottom line is that no matter how you try to educate the kids, some will have sex. Abstinence only education would leave them defenseless.