Thread: Obamacare

Originally Posted by gugi

That sounds very familiar. I hope you don't take betting pointers from the last guy who was to make it happen.

I don't take anything the creator of it takes seriously.

Originally Posted by prodigy

I really do think it will be taken away, here's why:
A) republicans and conservatives hate it, mostly due to its unconstitutional creation and implementation.
B) a Democrat wins and the country experiences a civil war

Either way it's gone....

I hope you are right. But republicans and conservatives are not exactly the same thing. They will do whatever benefits them politically. They might not have passed it into law but I'm not holding my breath that they will dismantle it. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I hope you are right. But republicans and conservatives are not exactly the same thing. They will do whatever benefits them politically. They might not have passed it into law but I'm not holding my breath that they will dismantle it. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

The thing is its unconstitutional, plain and simple. Presidents do not have the authority to write laws. Then there's the fact that it taxes people who don't have insurance (again unconstitutional ). So I don't see it staying much longer..

Originally Posted by prodigy

The thing is its unconstitutional, plain and simple. Presidents do not have the authority to write laws. Then there's the fact that it taxes people who don't have insurance (again unconstitutional ). So I don't see it staying much longer..

It seems unconstitutional, but Roberts' deciding vote was based pretty much on the government being able to tax you for about anything they want. So the interpretation is that they're not making health insurance mandatory, they're just charging you a tax if you don't take it.

Of course, to anyone with a brain, that would seem extremely weak. It's a slippery argument that could have them taxing us for not losing a certain amount of weight, etc.

My thought at the beginning that one, the idea of the law is to get people dependent on subsidies, and two, to funnel them to state exchanges because it will be easier to implement single payer from that.

There are a lot of hurdles to work through for the politicians, though, like how to continue to extract political donations from insurers, medical organizations and drug companies if they are, in fact, going to do that. They certainly don't want to decrease the share of health care costs as a % of income, because the bill has no real cost controls but it adds huge amounts of costs.

Once the cadillac tax hits, the S will HTF, and I seriously doubt the final bill for the legislation will be remotely as inexpensive as they said it would be (and it wasn't that to begin with).

You bring up another interesting subject, the supreme court wouldn't know if something was unconstitiuonal if slapped them in the face

Originally Posted by prodigy

Obamacare won't last a month past the next presidential election.

Ummm......what makes you think Hillary would jettison Obamacare??

Republicans better have Superman himself run in order to win; otherwise, it seems to me the scales are already tipped...

ChrisL

According to the Constitution the Supreme Court is the ultimate authority on what is constitutional and what isn't and they have ruled. The only way it can become unconstitutional is if it is reviewed again in the SCOTUS and the previous ruling is reversed.

I understand that the actual Constitution causes considerable discomfort to people who disagree with it, but that's how it was set up.

For about a decade "manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes" was unconstitutional and then it wasn't.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Ummm......what makes you think Hillary would jettison Obamacare??

Republicans better have Superman himself run in order to win; otherwise, it seems to me the scales are already tipped...

ChrisL

Exactly my point, if she wins there will be a civil war.

Originally Posted by prodigy

Exactly my point, if she wins there will be a civil war.

I doubt that, but I also doubt Hillary would be electable. She's a vile individual and I've never seen any evidence that she actually likes to serve people. Of course, that may be true for a lot of former presidents and it may be true for the current one, it's hard to know when we don't actually know them and they're not reading scripted answers to scripted questions or holding campaign stops where even the guests were brought in by their campaign.

I just get the sense she has a serious disdain for people in general, much further than the current president.

If she got elected, though, it would embolden congress to be even more defiant, and nothing would get done, except for a few bad bills (which is pretty much the way it's gone for at least 20 years now). I'm sure something would be done that would increase the deficit further in order to buy votes, but that's about it.

I don't have a whole lot of confidence in any of the candidates from any side. They all seem to know you buy votes with someone else's money and you ask for your own money from people with a lot of it. I see the republicans as doing 80% as much of buying votes and the same amount of asking. The whole setup is hardly any different than a pre-booked pro wrestling match. It's all gimmickry, nobody is there to actually solve anything or be honest.

Originally Posted by prodigy

Exactly my point, if she wins there will be a civil war.

The people in the war-torn zones dream of being able to one day live together in peace despite their differences and transition between governments without loss of life. In the supposedly most exceptional country in the world, people call for killing their friends and neighbors when a free election doesn't go their way.

Some days I can't believe what I read.