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Just a short note, with apologies for taking up some bandwidth. I was banned from Shave My Face (for reasons that are beyond the scope of this message).
I would like to alert anyone who is trying to send me Private Messages from Shave My Face that I cannot receive them (and cannot reply to them). If someone needs to contact me, please do so by email at [email protected] or [email protected]
Thanks, (and thanks to the admins)
Giovanni
I for one am interested to understand what happened - while I am not too active on many forums, I am interested in online codes of behaviour, censorship, etc.
So if possible - I'd like to get a link of the discussion that led to this unfortunate event (I say unfortunate because I somehow think grown up civilised men should not get to the point of such an extreme measure)
Cheers
Ivo
I welcome that.Quote:
Originally Posted by izlat
As far as I can tell this is what I believe happened: (Incidentally, I was not given an explanation for the ban.)
About a week ago, I was reprimanded by one of the admins for posting a reply to a question by a poster. The question was: Is there a website that sells different types of double edge blades?
I made the mistake of posting a reply, saying that my website, Barbieria Italiana, offered several different types of blades.
My post was quickly removed and I was given a warning that more such posts would result in my being banned.
I apologized (sincerely): I had contravened the rules, in my post and I did regret that fact and promised not to repeat the offense. Previously, I had posted a message showing a fountain pen and asking people interested in winning such pen to email me. No mention of the details nor of the website. I followed the guidelines I had previously been given by one of the admins. The post was removed. I guess the admins give different interpretations of the guidelines, or perhaps the rules have changed. That's OK. I understand and accept this.
A couple of days later I posted the picture of an odd travel razor, mentioning that I had written an article on vintage travel razors and giving the direct link to the article. This was not a commercial post, since the article has to do with vintage razors.
The post was pulled and the next time I tried to log on, I received a message advising me of the ban.
That's my recollection of the events. If I am mistaken, I am sorry. I am looking forward to comments by the SMF admins.
Thanks to SRP for providing this opportunity.
As for providing a link, I can't do that, since I cannot acces the SMF website.
Thank you for the explanation, Giobanni.
I think you'd have no problems like this here
Cheers
Ivo
Well that won't be a problem here. Part of the beauty of this community is that it gathers knowledge, experience and craftsmen (and a craftswoman :) )
I think this site would suffer if we lost the ability to buy / sell stuff and offer services. Btw, it is also allowed to talk about current ebay auctions.
We like to help each other.
I hope everything works out for you.
I'm not a memeber at SMF but I do know that some forums are run as revenue producers for the owners and many time these forums have very strict rules about what can be posted because they don't want to upset their paying sponsors and kill their golden goose so to speak. I don't know if that is what happened in this case or not but its a possibility.
I'm not a SMF member either and I can't speak fairly to this particular issue. What I can say is that I've never seen a problem like that here, for which I'm grateful. Also, Giovanni, I think you've been nothing but a good contributor and asset to SRP so SMF's loss is our gain :)
Actually, a couple of months ago I offered to become a sponsor of SMF. I was told that, basically, they did not want me. Something about upsetting lots of members who are also members of B&B....Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
In our case, advertising revenue is just used to keep the forum up and running. We actually welcome members like yourself who also offer valuable products and services in addition to contributions to our fund of knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryphon
At the risk of playing with matches and gasoline...
I've followed what went on at B&B (but not SMF) - basically, what happened was that you attempted to use your involvement in the group to advance your personal commercial interests (outside of the vendor and buy/sell sections).
In addition, you made inaccurate statements about your products (specifically that the rose soap was all-natural, despite using artificial scenting agents). You were taken to task on this by Joel and reacted in a very hostile manner.
You also reacted in a very hostile way to a negative review of your soap. Part of your response included posting pictures of how well your soap lathered, but posted pictures showing a weak lather - which you then attempted to substitute with photos of better lather after several board members commented that the lather looked weak. This attempt to cover up the initial poor pictures was caught by the moderators and you were again taken to task regarding your marketing activities on the board.
In short, before being banned, you were warned on more than one occasion as to what type of behaviour was acceptable.
I believe the final straw came when you had words (PMs) with Joel and then used B&B to post ads for your rival/copycat site - at which point you were banned.
Clearly your conduct over at B&B has had repercussions for your attempts to become an SMF sponsor and I make no comment on what happened over at SMF. What I do object to is your attemps to downplay and feign shock/innocence that you might have offended B&B members. Whether you agree with the action taken by the folks who run B&B is one thing, to pretend not to understand what the fuss was all about.
With regard to your involvement here, I've scanned your posts and the majority of them relate to the promotion of your business interests. Unlike many other vendors, your non-commercial involvement in SRP is quite limited - which is fine, but does suggest that you view membership in SRP as primarily a way to advance your business interests.
I have no problem with vendors promoting their commercial interests on a site such as SRP, so long as it is done appropriately (all claims regarding products being accurate, reacting in a mature way to criticism, promotional activities being conducted in the vendors section, etc.).
I realize that this will likely spark a powder keg, but I thougt that Tryphon's attempts to minimize the reasons why he might have "upset" members of B&B should be clarified.
To be perfectly honest, I personally don't care about what's happened on other boards - so long as Tryphon is willing to comply with the rules and decorum that apply to membership in SRP, I'm happy to have him as a member and look forward to hearing about his company and products.
Let the flames begin!
Just goes to show you that there are (at least) two sides to every story. From personal experience the truth most always lies somewhere between.Quote:
Originally Posted by suzuki
Too true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli
I drafted my post becuase I took issue with the tone of Tryphon's post that could be interpreted as suggesting he wasn't sure what the folks at SMF were getting at.
Tryphon may have a different view of how events unfolded over at B&B.
I had no involvment at all in what happened over at B&B and think it has no bearing on Tryphon's ability to be a member of SRP.
So long as he's willing to play by the SRP rules, he should be welcome as a member of this board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzuki
Look, I don't want to start a diatribe. As far as my position at SMF, I posted my views, which I consider correct. I have not seen any posts by any SMF admins that contradict them.
As far as B&B, you only mention one side of the argument, since you have no access to the PMs that were exchanged. Suffice it to say: look at the review that was made of my Rosa soap (the one you mentioned in your Original Post). Look at the ratings given, the lowest on record, with a rating for lather that would probably be appropriate for a piece of marble, then decide if I had reasons to complain.
Here's the link:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...?ltr=T&t=11015
Peace,
Giovanni
I'm going to let the posts on B&B speak on this issue - this is the discussion thread regarding the soap review that Tryphon objected to:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...769#post138769
Posts 18 and 26 highlight the problematic conduct I mentioned my the first post.
I make no comment on Tryphon's products - as I have not tried them.
I make no comment on any private exchanges between Tryphon and the moderators of B&B - as I was obviously not a party to them.
Again, so long as Tryphon is willing to abide by the rules/decorum we expect here at SRP, so far as I'm concerned (FWIW) he should be welcome and be welcome to promote his business/products in the designated spaces.
I think Chris (suzuki) is showing how people should handle these issues - kudos to him. He has seen something, did not quite like it, and explained why in a mature and factual way, while keeping an open mind and extending courtesy to Giovanni. What more can one want?
Way to go Chris!
Ivo
Personally I read the posts you mentioned and the moderators seemed kind of prissy. From the two I read 18 and 26 I would have been pissed at the moderators. Sounded like a few of the guys who are no longer on this site.:shrug:
Thanks Ivo - good to know that at least one person thinks I got it right:DQuote:
Originally Posted by izlat
Having checked out the thread referenced it's nice to know that there are whiny little biatchs everywhere, not just the ones that seem to surface around me on occasion. (I know, I can be one too, LOL.) J.
Perhaps they simply let their position go to their heads??Quote:
Originally Posted by RichZ
Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvbias
You know Terry I think you are right. I think moderators need to take a back seat unless it is really getting hostile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichZ
I'm glad that we don't have melt downs on SRP over
soaps, creams, brushes and the like.
The only time things have gotten nasty here is when a
discussion turns political. Those threads just aren't
any good.
Terry
Politics & Religion ---- Deadly topicsQuote:
Originally Posted by wvbias
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5...rgument4tf.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by RichZ
But seriously...those mods needed to calm down...I didn't think Tryphon said anything, not having viewed the PMs of course, to evoke such a hostile response.
Giovanni,
I am also a member of SMF and am actually awaiting some samples of your soaps, and find this a bit disconcerting. I can understand the "reprimand" for the commercial blades post, but the subsequent ban for what appears to be legitimate posts leads me to believe there is something else at work. Hopefully, you will get a full explanation of what happened.
Good luck.
Jeff
:eek:
I am a member at both SMF and B&B. And I am a moderator at both sites. I was not involved in the banning, but it goes to violation of forum rules. I do know that warnings were given. Part of the problem was the promoting of his own forum. Part of the problem was the constant self promotion of his products inside of threads. Neither SMF or B&B have sponsors. I have on several occasions requested that new vendors check out the posts of Tony Miller as a vendor who participates as a member, and also participates as a vendor without any issues. I did not point this out to Giovanni. Maybe I should have. I do know that he was contacted more than once to stop promoting his items outside of the Vendor/Shopping forum on both sites. The requests went unheeded. And I'm not about to go through both sites to find the questionable threads. They are there for anyone who has the time to find them. What happened is unfortunate, but based on the knowledge I have, I see no reason why the banning should not have taken place. And Giovanni, FYI, on both forums, there were lengthy threads about what to do regarding your behavior. Neither forum banned you as a snap decision. A lot of input and consideration was placed into the bannings.
If anyone wants to know more, please, don't pm me. My time on the forums is extremely limited for the next few months, and anything you want to read is still on the forums. Visit them for yourself. The bannings were not about a power trip. It was about upholding the "laws of the land".
RT
I just scoured B&B and didn't see any posts made by him that were out of order...perhaps the mods have since deleted them. Heck, he doesn't even show up on the members list now.
Anyway, I think it's a crock that promoting your own product is such a big deal. Nobody is forcing them to read his posts....and if people didn't talk about new products in forums other than the vendor forums I wouldn't know much about anything.
If he was only a vendor and not a member that took part in other discussions, that'd be one thing...but from what I saw that was clearly not the case.
My 2 cents FWIW.
I looked over at the Razor and Brush forum. I'm not sure if he created it, but it definitely looks like he's using it as a vehicle for promoting his wares.
and I found this:
"I don't know what the real reason for the ban may be: I really think that using my innocent post about my travel razors article as a reason for a ban is quite ridiculous. There have been mixed signals from the moderators, with Johnnie being quite reasonable in the past. We corresponded on fountain pen repair issues and he was quite nice. Then, this ban, which really comes as a surprise, since I honestly can't see what I did against the posting guidelines..."
http://members.boardhost.com/razoran...178487891.html
This guy needs to come clean and admit he made mistakes instead of stringing people along.
Gents,
I intend for this to be my last post on this issue. All forums have their own set of rules and terms of use. Giovanni violated those at both SMF and B&B. Whether you or I agree or disagree with those rules, those are the rules. Did he read them in advance? I don't know. But when he joined the forums, he agreed to abide by all rules and terms of use. And then he ignored warnings. Frankly, I find it interesting that he seems rather proud of being banned at two forums. And I say that as a forum member, not as a moderator at any forum.
And, as a member of a forum, I question why he did not simply post here that he no longer participated at those forums and ask to be contacted by email. He went out of his way to "brag" about being banned. Had he simply posted that he no longer participated, this would be a very short thread. But now, look at the publicity. IMO, that says it all.
RT
Hones on the other hand, seem to arouse some ire. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wvbias
Gentlemen,
before this thread deteriorates more can we have the moderators move this to the "off topic" arena. to be honest i have not read anything in here that remotely relates to shaving.
as for being banned from a forum, well that is what happens when you choose to violate rules, whether you are warned first or not.
I understand the rules and fully support the resulting consequences of violating said rules. What I'm concerned with here is that this thread will turn into a bashing session even if unintentionally.
To date, so far as I know, Giovanni has broken no rules here at SRP. I suggest we let this die, consider that it appears he's learned from his mistakes from the other threads and move on.
I second that - this should be laid to rest and closed.
Si
I've got nothing worth adding here because what happened at B&B or SMF or what Tryphon did or what the moderators there did is none of my business. I keep thinking there must be some sage advice or comment I can make about all this but since I don't have a dog in the fight, I am having quite a bit of difficulty making judgement calls about any of this. Too bad. I enjoy an animated discussion but, alas, I'll have to pass this time.
As a suggestion to the mods, perhaps you should make it part of the forum guidelines that discussing reasons for someone's bannination results in automatic temporary bannination. That's how things work on some other forums I've seen...completely avoids threads like these...Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
:roflmao nice oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Quatsch
CHeers
Ivo
My $.02 is that as long as this remains civil and doesn't get into mean-spiritedness I think these members should be allowed to discuss whatever they want. I do agree that the mods should move it to the off-topic forum... this has nothing to do with shaving, per se.
Just as a historical note... ever since forums came into popularity there have been bannings and member malcontents who subsequently started their own forums. AFAIK, razor and brush, shave den, badger and blade, etc all resulted, at least in part, from one or both of these situations. To each his own... and there's nothing wrong with that!
That's how it works with internet forums. It's like a beehive. Once a forum gets a certain amount of activity, sure as anything, it will be time for someone to decide they've got enough support to start a new hive and fly off to start a new colony with a swarm of supporters from the old colony as their membership base. And so two colonies exist where there was just one. And if those colonies thrive, they'll end up swarming, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by azjoe
Please read my original post. Incidentally, an SMF member told me that the SMF admins removed the links below my sig. in my old posts, to make it difficult for anyone there to contact me. Can you confirm this? Feel free to reply to me by email, I am not trying to keep this thread alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtaylor61
Thanks,
Giovanni
Joe,Quote:
Originally Posted by azjoe
This greatly preceeds the advent of internet forums. Consider religion (I do love opening up a can of worms). If it weren't for bannings (excommunication) and malcontents, there would be a lot fewer denominations out there.
FWIW,
Ed