So your vote almost mattered - a rare thing ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
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So your vote almost mattered - a rare thing ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
"A dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants."
Hamilton, Federalist #1
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
Possibly A. Lincoln
"There's a sucker born every minute"
Unknown
“nothing is more common than for a free people, in times of heat and violence, to gratify momentary passions, by letting into the government, principles and precedents which afterwards prove fatal to themselves.”Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
Phocion (Alexander Hamilton) 1784
Maybe he knew a lot more than we do??Quote:
It's too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy cutting hair and driving taxi's-George Burns (comedian)
~Richard
Funny. I remember an interview with George Burns where he was asked what his doctor thought about his drinking and smoking cigars. "What does my doctor think? He does't care, he's dead!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
This not only applies to size of govt of course but to many other things. Important things like freedom of speech and civil liberties. Here's a quote comparison I find very interesting indeed. The attribution to Goebbels only refers to the fact he said it - it's unclear whether he came up with it in the first place (in fact, he probably didn't):Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
Eric Schmidt, Current Executive Chairman of Google's parent company, advisor to the Google founders Page and Brin, and former CEO of Google (his role at the time of this quote).Quote:
If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place...
Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda (Information)Quote:
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
Like I said, I find the similarities between both the quotes and the positions held by the people who said them, both interesting and disturbing.
James.
I think it's a case of serving one's interest. I like Upton Sinclair's quote along these linesQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Quote:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
I wish there were some good quotes about how to control people through fear and information overload..... :)
James.
While people debate and discuss the troops march through the gates .... it's been done.
Anyway, I haven't been paying a great deal of attention to the news lately, but from what I can garner it sounds like Trump on the Republican side and Clinton on the Democrat side are pulling away from their respective rivals, is that right?
So if we assume they will be the candidates for the Presidency, what's going to happen? Will the US elect its first female President? Or will Trump come up .... er ... trumps?
James.
I said it earlier Jimbo, the American people will see through Clinton -regardless of the opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Despite the rights continual drive to paint the Clintons as the worst thing since Richard Nixon no Democrat would vote for either Trump or Cruz and I doubt most independents would either. With either one the Republicans will lose their shirts come election day. I wouldn't put it past them to dig up Romney and run him if they can get away with it.
UUhhmm Nixon wasn't as bad as Clinton. What he did was nothing compared to the multitude of self serving acts she took part in over the years. I truly believe she will be given a pair of matching bracelets. I am a registered democrat and I am voting for Trump. I know I am not the only one. There is no way on this earth that Clinton wins. I hope the people of our great country have better judgement then that Trump will eat her for breakfast. I have never seen an all out campaign like this to get rid of Trump or anyone else. TV adds the media and all these established politicians. What they don't get is that the more they attack him the stronger his campaign gets. Next they will say he is the devil and his hair is like that to hide his horns. And you know some people will believe it. Vote for who you want to its your right.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Anyone catch the coverage of Trumps rally in Chicago last night?
Crowds Fill Chicago Pavilion To See Trump; Protesters Mass Outside « CBS Chicago
Yes
Attachment 231263
And
It is Bush's,,, I mean Trumps's Fault oh heck it is somebody else's fault :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
As I've said in previous posts, I'm not a Trump guy. But after yesterday I'm thinking I might be able to be convinced. If those are the people that disagree with him, he must be doing something right.
Despite repeated warnings throughout 2007-2008 about Barack Obama's associations with Jeremiah Wright, Saul Alinsky "Rules for Radicals", and Bill Ayers, and especially his threat to "fundamentally transform" America; not to mention all of the scandals that occurred within his administration from Rahm Emanuel tax dodging and fast and furious to the Veteran's Administration, IRS, Benghazi and others, he was elected not once, but twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker7
I wasn't either, but I am getting there pretty quick, I voted for him last weekQuote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
IL votes so late that it normally doesn't matter to vote in a primary. This time I may have to do it since a candidate will likely not be chosen by the time IL votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Same here, the last two cycles it was pretty much a moot point by the time we voted or Caucused, and Cruz won Idaho anyway this time :( but we went and we voted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
If Osama I mean Obama could run he would probably win again. I think the lack of a credible candidate has hurt the republican party in the past 2 elections. Their platform is outdated. They needed to reinvent themselves and perhaps that is some of Trumps appeal. If he wins the nomination it will be an incredible victory considering what he is up against. His opponents include some of the most powerful people in our country with an open checkbook and the media. The man has held his own so far. If he is elected he will surround himself with the best people for the positions. His dogged determination may just rub off on America and make us proud again.:rock:
I am truly ashamed of America for even considering Donald Trump as the leader of this great country. There are no candidates worth voting for but I will be voting and NO WAY I am voting for Trump! Hilary Clinton is more of a man than that clown :rofl2:
This was a good read that just came across my feed...
A Constitutional Lesson for Donald J. Trump, Chicago, Illinois, and America:
The cancelled #TrumpRally in Chicago is a classic example of what we call in the Constitutional realm as a "Heckler's Veto."
You have freedom of speech, but that only exists until you interfere with someone else's freedom of speech. That is the difference between Liberty and freedom.
The whole reason for securing the Right to free speech is to make sure that a mob cannot shut down the speech of others.
Your Liberty ends when you interfere with another's Rights:
“Without Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as publick Liberty, without Freedom of Speech; which is the Right of every Man, as far as by it, he does not hurt or controul the Right of another: And this is the only Check it ought to suffer, and the only Bounds it ought to know." Silence Dogood, No. 8.
It is NOT an expression of freedom of speech to shut down someone else's speech or expression of ideas. That is not Liberty that is despotism.
Jefferson said, "One hundred and seventy-three despots would surely be as oppressive as one."
We are NOT a democracy. We are NOT mob rule. We are a Constitutional Republic where the Rights of the minority are just as important as the heckling mob.
The local law enforcement had a responsibility to make sure that the rally was NOT cancelled and those who wanted to stop it were not successful. When the "Hecklers" are successful, what you have is despotism by mob.
Greta Van Susteren is TOTALLY WRONG. Protesters NEVER have a "right" to freedom of speech to shut down someone else's speech. #Greta needs to go back to Constitutional Law class.
Local government must “provide police in such numbers as in their professional judgment are required to afford adequate protection to [protesters].” Dunlap v City of Chicago 435 F. Supp. 1295 (1977)
Local law enforcement should have never advised Trump to not have the rally. They should've said, "We will protect your Rights and make sure your speech is not stopped. It is our duty!"
It is time for America to get the proper perspective on Liberty. It is time to start defending the proper principles. How about we start spreading the Truth about Freedom of Speech, instead of the propaganda being spread by the media on this subject?
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Originally Posted by Steel
Now we agree on something :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I just heard the mealy mouthed Kaisich (I have no idea if I'm spelling his name right) saying that Trump reaps what he sows. It's guys like him that have offered these castrated reactions to getting agendas rammed down our throats by protesters instead of pushing back on that crap. One thing I did agree with Trump on was the idea that if a protester show up throwing punches, punch back. The other candidates are responding as though that doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
So you are for Ted Cruz then, since part of his platform is to get rid of all this so that you can do your taxes on a postcard and there will be no need for the IRS
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
All three,,, Cruz Rubio and Kasich just all said that, I wonder if they are smart enough to know that if tomorrow Trump drops out that they will become the "target" the day after :hmmm:
I'm not convinced that they would become that target because they are not promising what Trump is promising. Consequently they are all trailing him in the race. The topics that make Trump controversial are the ones I agree most with him on. It's the other stuff that concerns me. But Trump did not create a toxic environment. We live in one every day. It's just that the other candidates are letting those leftist protestors dictate what they say, and increasingly, what they do. Then someone like Trump comes along and they don't know what to do but try to silence him.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Tis a long building shame that we find ourselves in a situation where we no longer vote for the best candidate but; the lesser of two evils.
~Richard
As far as I'm concerned, it's been that way since Reagan left office.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
It's been the same since the founding: Jefferson vs Adams, Lincoln vs Douglas, Obama vs Romney, etc, etc..
As long as this country maintains it's dedication to the rule of law as it has done, as opposed to the rule of men as some would like, everything, despite a little pain here and there, will be fine.
My question is this. By my understanding, any elected President that has considerable wealth and holdings must either divest himself of the same or turn control of, with no interference from him, his control to a neutral party to avoid any criticism that any laws enacted aren't directly benefiting him? Considering Trumps noted tendency to be an over controlling person how in hell will that be accomplished should he become President. And that holds for any one elected to that position.
Isn't it the job of the Congress to provide that check?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfeld
If that is so then Congress would have to start impeachment processes immediately since Trump brokers no opposition to what he perceives as right and just when it comes to his actions and decisions. I cannot see him willingly setting aside control of his empire while president.
"When men, engaged in unjustifiable pursuits, are aware that obstructions may come from a quarter which they cannot control, they will often be restrained by the bare apprehension of opposition, from doing what they would with eagerness rush into, if no such external impediments were to be feared."Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfeld
Hamilton, Federalist #73
"Ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government."
Federalist #51
The primary control afforded the people is the ballot box.
Personally I think Trump is the perfect match for this country and what it has become. Folks who are easily swayed, folks who are gullible, folks who don't think for themselves and probably believe in Santa Claus. Just maybe the Republican establishment is so against trump not just because he is a threat to them but maybe they realize he would be a really terrible President.
Personally, (and I don't believe in conspiracies) however in this case I think the divisiveness in this country didn't just happen as some organic event but it has been totally orchestrated and controlled by interests in this country who would profit by it. You just need to ask yourself who that would be and you have your answer. I doubt the creators would have guessed how successful it has become.
Unfortunately things like that often get out of hand in a very bad way.
I'll bet the founding father's are all turning over in their graves right now.
"In republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates. The remedy for this inconveniency is to divide the legislature into different branches; and to render them, by different modes of election and different principles of action, as little connected with each other as the nature of their common functions and their common dependence on the society will admit."
Federalist #51
How did the change in the election of the Senate due to the 17th amendment alter the function of congress and it's role in republican government?
OK, so thebigspendur raised another thing I've been hearing about but really don't fully understand.
I've heard several times now that Trump has been criticised by people within the party he is representing. I understand the idea of factions within parties, we have that here too. But just what proportion of the Republican party supports Trump, and what proportion doesn't? And which proportion?
Is his support from the extreme right factions within the party? Do they represent a large proportion of the party? If they don't (ie they are a small proportion) does that mean the party is at the mercy of this Presidential nomination process? They can only put up nominees, and then the rest is up to the voters in the primaries (is that the right terminology)? Whoever wins is the Party's Presidential candidate, whether the majority of the Party likes it or not?
James.
it's the far right that supports him and they are very vocal so it seems like a large percentage but it isn't. That's why polls show likely Republican Voters reject him by a large margin. Unfortunately he sells so the media keeps hyping him. In many respects he is a product of the media.
