Thread: President of the US of A

Originally Posted by gugi

This seems to be opposite of your first paragraph:
I do not get your point but democracy and republic are different.

If electing the government results only in self-serving leaders that is the case against the representative democracy, or as you prefer to call it a republic.
I never called a democracy a republic!

Trump is riding a populist wave which is the closest thing to a direct democracy. The idea of the founding fathers was that the people aren't all that good at ruling themselves directly, that's why they need an elite aristocracy to rule. The difference with a monarchy is that it wouldn't be a simple hereditary aristocracy, but elected. I.e. people may not be trusted to rule themselves, but can be trusted to figure out who would be the best in ruling them.

I totally disagree with your opinions of their motives.

And now the people are saying that this isn't working - the leaders they have been electing have been pretty bad, so now they are going to elect somebody who is going to implement 'the will of the people' and not have this elitist attitude of doing 'what is best for the country' that the founding fathers had.

I am not getting your point.

Originally Posted by Kmcmichael

I am not getting your point.

First, it would be helpful to mark up your responses when you intersperse them among my text.
That being set aside, if you use jargon/shorthand you should define it first, otherwise it gets very confusing as you can see. We have to speak the same language before we can begin understand each other.

So, please, define 'republic', 'democracy', and how the US government system fits with those definitions.

I used the term 'representative democracy', because that's what USA is and I assumed that when you said 'republic' you meant the same, as it generally means government via elected representatives. Representative democracy is a subset of the broader category republic. However, you disagreed, so please clarify the terms you are using.


In any case my point was that in one paragraph you are defending a representative system as the only good choice, while in the other you are making the case that that same system produces terrible results. Is there something you are advocating for?
Perhaps the problem is that you are using too broad of a category and it would be clear if you use the precise term that means what you mean.

Fair enough, a republic is governed by the rule of law i.e. A constitution.
A democracy is governed by the votes of the people.

The term representative democracy is redundant as is constitutional republic.

The US is a democratic republic as it has elements of both.

Originally Posted by Kmcmichael

Fair enough, a republic is governed by the rule of law i.e. A constitution.
A democracy is governed by the votes of the people.

This isn't enough of a distinction to warrant comparisons, because of the big overlap between these two categories.

Which you noted with:

Originally Posted by Kmcmichael

The US is a democratic republic as it has elements of both.

Originally Posted by Kmcmichael

The term representative democracy is redundant as is constitutional republic

I am not quite sure about this. A direct democracy is different from representative democracy. In the first you chose representatives to make decisions on your behalf, in the second everybody votes on every decision.
And I don't see why a republic needs to have a constitution which is the overarching framework. Couldn't you simply make laws as it is necessary? Governing by written law, as opposed to say the judgement of appointed or elected officials doesn't seem to require a constitutional framework.
For example, what was the constitution of the Roman Republic? As far as I know there wasn't anything formal like in the USA but precedents and principles evolved over time. I think that form of government is still considered republic - it succeeded a monarchy and was followed by empire (in many ways a monarchy).

And here comes the next nail in the Clinton Coffin..

Elizabeth "Cherokee Un-Nation, I haven't done anything in the Senate" Warren

Yeah I am liking Trump more and more...

Spokane:
Dozens of Trump protesters vs nearly 10,000 Trump supporters,, no problems, and talk on the PNW social media pages was funny
"Way too many 7B and 9B plates driving in, for the rally" Hehehehe

You say there is not enough distinction to matter between a democracy and a republic then you try to make great distinctions between a democracy and a representative democracy...as a moderator you should block me now and use that advantage.

The essential difference is that everyone has rights as opposed to the ruling majority. This is huge. Democracies always fail. It is simple human nature. As soon as the majority realizes they can vote themselves funds from the government, it collapses.

Thinking that some judge should be able to hold sway over decisions without written law to guide is not acceptable. I cannot fathom such a system. You have way to much faith in your fellow man or no understanding of human nature.

Btw I could not get the quote thing.

Originally Posted by Kmcmichael

as a moderator you should block me now and use that advantage

I just lost any interest in continuing our conversation. Take care.