Don't rob a bank in Spain

**jnich67** · 06-20-2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by syslight

I'm concurring with Mhailey... i seem to recall that the simple fact that a person is pulled over for speeding, or another traffic infraction, opens them up for a police search... i think the supreme court weighed in on this in the early 90s...

but hey i'm not a lawyer, just mildly fascinated by the corrupt laws we live under.

And Jim, lets not forget the scary local "Justice Courts" we have here in NY. They're a throwback to colonial times.

Jordan

**syslight** · 06-20-2007, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by jnich67

And Jim, lets not forget the scary local "Justice Courts" we have here in NY. They're a throwback to colonial times.

Jordan

Oh i have not forgotten them... i ran for one last year... lost it to the incumbent who is almost as well qualified for the position as my dog and nearly as well trained (the dog is house broken)

there are however good things that come out of them... old justices with 8th grade educations can be very lenient to you ... 8 of 9 tickets being dismissed and the last one was reduced to "parking on the pavement"... only cost 250$ and no points, no bump in the insurance bill. then again they could just as easily throw in jail for a year.
for the record the 9 tickets were all one event about 20 years ago... nothing like feeding your need for speed.

ALWAYS take a lawyer to justice court.

**jnich67** · 06-20-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by syslight

Oh i have not forgotten them... i ran for one last year... lost it to the incumbent who is almost as well qualified for the position as my dog and nearly as well trained (the dog is house broken)

there are however good things that come out of them... old justices with 8th grade educations can be very lenient to you ... 8 of 9 tickets being dismissed and the last one was reduced to "parking on the pavement"... only cost 250$ and no points, no bump in the insurance bill. then again they could just as easily throw in jail for a year.
for the record the 9 tickets were all one event about 20 years ago... nothing like feeding your need for speed.

ALWAYS take a lawyer to justice court.

I'll remember that. Luckily, I haven't had the pleasure...yet.

Jordan

**gratewhitehuntr** · 06-20-2007, 06:33 PM

At this point Mr Hailey I suppose it would be pertinent to know what exactly your level of familiarity is with local law enforcement/law enforcement in general??

If you are/have been/ or are training to be a LEO then you already know how law enforcement manipulates individuals and systematically violates civil rights(or at least will soon if you are in training)

READ THIS PEOPLE!! KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!! THE POLICE DO!!

Unless the traffic crime is an arrestable one, which running a stop sign is almost definitely not (unless the operator refuses to sign the ticket which is an arrestable misdemeanor) , YOU ARE ALL WRONG.

The police CANNOT search a vehicle without consent or exigent circumstances, a warrant, or a dog alert.
Unlocking your car door at the officers request or handing them the keys is considered consent to search in most states.

Ask if you are free to go. If you are not then you are being detained.

Police can not force you to produce ID (in FL) unless they have RS of criminal activity.

Never seen a dog trained to bark on command??
NEVER?
Somehow I don't believe you.
Any 17 year old, half retard beagle can SPEAK.

What is the chance that a well trained dog could be wrong you ask?
PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO PAGES 8 AND 9
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...pdf/03-923.pdf

If the officers knew that the search would be considered legal and the charge would stick then why not??

After all, our system is so F'd up, it makes the cops have to try harder to compensate for the lawyers getting so many charges thrown out on illegal S&S.
Right?

More stuff
http://www.flexyourrights.org/traffic_stop_scenario
http://www.wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/summary/04-490.htm

Learn your rights people

**mhailey** · 06-20-2007, 08:09 PM

I was a prosecutor, and I am now a civil litigator.

Further, an alert to the presence of drugs is totally different than commanding a dog to speak.

An alert is when you tell the dog to find the drugs, and then the animal unilaterally gives the signal that drugs have been found. There can be a multitude of different "alerts" such as sitting, scratching at the location of the drugs, or barking in conjunction with the others. It is not barking alone. The alert is performed unilaterally, after the command is given to search for drugs.

If the police officer commands the dog to speak, then any such command will be on the dash cam (which also records the police officer's voice), and the search can easily be deemed unconstitutional, and any evidence which resulted from this search excluded. Where I live the dash cam automatically begins to record when the emergency flashers are activated, and this is how the vehicle is directed to stop. They (and the dash cam) and are not turned off until after the stop is completed. It is kind of hard for the cop to command the dog to issue a false alert under this scenario.

Additionally, watch this video.

**gratewhitehuntr** · 06-20-2007, 09:25 PM

Good, I'm glad to know who I am talking to, although I must say that as a private security officer I have somewhat less than the utmost respect for civil litigators.

Understand that this may or may not be a condemnation of your profession and or personal character depending on your area of practice and specific sorts of cases you pursue.

I see more clearly now where your question concerning lawyers and the constitution handcuffing the justice system was pointed.

I would say that civil lawsuits have been a factor in the "hobbling" of the criminal law system and that the current civil system is a disaster.

Why would I say this?

Even in a justified shoot at work, ie. armed assailant killed in the commission of a forcible felony, I stand to loose more than 1 month work due to being relieved of duty because of vicarious liability and EVEN IN A JUSTIFIED SHOOT I still stand a very good chance of having a civil suit brought against me.

Even if I just shoot the guy in the leg his liar is going to stand in court and swear that he was the next Dion Sanders until that mean ol security shot him in the knee and ruined his life forever.

If he can't run from the police how is he supposed to make a living??

As far as the dissenting opinion of Ginsburg in the Illinois v. CaballesI was pointing out that even certain members of the Supreme Court feel that dogs are unreliable.

As far as whether or not it is law??

Well now that I know what your level of understanding is on this topic I can clearly see that you meant this to be a joke.

You should know better than most that a judges opinion is at the head of the "about to become a law" line.
All that is needed is a few more justices to agree with her and it WILL be the law.

BTW, dogs respond to all sorts of commands, not just verbal.
Many dogs are trained with hand commands, I've even managed a command by rapid blinks or tiny squeaks, clucks, hissing though my teeth and even a "psst" that was barely audible to even me(and I was issuing it) which the dog would respond to from over 30 ft away and sit.

Hell, in that video all he had to do was issue a hand command to sit by snapping his fingers.
Let me tell you something man.
I have hunted over a lot of dogs, someone else can back me on this, a dog does not need you to point at things for them to smell.

I find his handling techniques suspicious, even in that video.

**gratewhitehuntr** · 06-20-2007, 09:35 PM

Thanks for the youtube idea btw. I went and watched some more vids.

Like this one
Notice the reward at the end? I don't think it was food but still a reward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvnU6...elated&search=

**mhailey** · 06-21-2007, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

... [I] must say that as a private security officer I have somewhat less than the utmost respect for civil litigators.

Understand that this may or may not be a condemnation of your profession and or personal character depending on your area of practice and specific sorts of cases you pursue.

Seriously, was this necessary?????????

**mhailey** · 06-20-2007, 04:34 PM

It is not that speeding opened the way to a search, but that she got arrested for speeding, and then her car was searched incident to the arrest. The search and the arrest were both determined to be valid.

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