Thread: Has anyone else noticed this?

Originally Posted by RobinK

I spoke to Ivan about this in private. My personal opinion is that the best way to save the site is to archive it, and start from scratch with contemporary software that offers solutions for all of the above issues. Joomla, Typo3, Drupal - there are lots of options (and we discussed this many years ago already). But in its current form, the site is technically inferior to most of its competitors, finding good content is still a nightmare, and the fun bits like reviews and B/S/T are gone, or dysfunctional.

Just sayin'.

I trust Ivan to look after the tech side but I know his life is a bit upside down atm. I'm sure he appreciates the input tho.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I trust Ivan to look after the tech side but I know his life is a bit upside down atm. I'm sure he appreciates the input tho.

He might, but let us be realistic: The work required to get a new site up and running could be measured in man months. As I said, three people worked on the Wiki for months - and that was relatively straightforward, just some c&p'ing plus some editing. I took a look at the amount of work needed to fix what was broken there, and, well, it is much more than I would be able to spend.

So, this is not going to happen. And we will have to live with badly maintained legacy software that makes it impossible for Ivan and the tech team to bring back the aforementioned functionalities.

No, this is not good. I wish I could help, but outside hiring two or three full time developers for a few months, I do not see how the current situation could be improved. Especially if parts of the old contents were to be converted, and carried over to the new site (which would use different markup languages, formats, tags, and so on).

Originally Posted by RobinK

1. Reviews: There used to be a really great review section. Many, if not most, people are attracted to niche sites such as this by high quality reviews. Those are gone. I understand that there is a technical problem that prevents you guys from putting the review section, and maybe even the old reviews, back up. But it is a fact that they are missing - badly.
2. Mentoring: Maybe the idea was good, but putting it to work was too resource intensive. But I still believe that if it had worked, the mentoring programme would have attracted a significant number of recurring, active contributors.
3. Buy/Sell/Trade: Like the reviews section, this section used to be easily accessible, functional, and offered the opportunity to leave constructive feedback. Again, as far as I understand, there is a technical problem preventing you from bringing back the old system. But, again, the current system is simply worse, and far less functional, and therefore unattractive.
4. Wiki: My pet peeve. It took several man months to build. After the guys who built it retired, someone messed it up badly. While it sill contains valuable information, it is partly broken, and now also contains subjective, badly written opinion pieces.
5. The forum itself: When I joined ten or so years back, it was difficult to search, and lots of good information was buried under sycophantic chatter (which is why the Wiki was built, remember?). Well, ten years later, there is still good information there (because, let us be frank, shaving is not rocket science, and the amount of salient information is not very big). But the line noise has got even worse. Clearly, this is a highly subjective opinion, and I appreciate that there is a conflict of interest: some people love the chatter, not least because it gives them the opportunity to provide the same morsels of wisdom again, and again, and again. Personally, I am more of a "give me the facts, and I might look at the chatter later" kind of guy. Setting the minimum amount of characters required to be able to publish a post to 1,000 might actually help.

That is indeed a mess of technical hurdles to overcome, and I had no idea. Let's make us some sausage!

Clearly none of this will happen short of Ivan winning the state lottery, but as a former computer professional, I totally see why anyone would refuse to take on that mountain of work. It would be foolish.

I have long since given up searching for any information on this site using the Google site search feature seeing as the functionality works miserably at best. For example, I will click through to a search result which claims 4 pages of SRP thread information (1234 links in footer)...then finding barely 2 pages of actual thread Or, sections in search summaries that do not appear after one dives deeper into the search target. Made another attempt in vain just yesterday to see if perhaps I was just crazy (besides the point as it turns out).

However, most of us see nothing wrong with chatter so long as a search tool has the expected ability to, you know, search and actually work.

I am a relatively new member of SRP who lurked for a long while getting good information and then joined so I could contribute and engage with the folks who were already members.

From my perspective, there is a pragmatic function to SRP in which members seek and provide information and a social function in which we have the opportunity to communicate with folks who have shared interests. I realize there are members who would rather emphasize the functional aspect of the site and see the other as noise or fluff. I really like the balance and believe it makes this place more humane and welcoming. You can see evidence of that it the reaction of new members to the welcomes they receive.

No question the technical capabilities of the site could be improved. While I found lots of useful info in the fora and in the library/wiki, I was frustrated by the search feature returning results that were often only marginally related to what I was looking for. However, my questions were almost always answered and my concerns helpfully addressed in the forum. I suppose it might be possible to provide a searchable archive of all the past forum posts to create a kind of online wet shaving encyclopedia, but the human interaction would be removed from the process. I recall Gssixgun’s reponse to a post in a thread I started about the definciencies of search feature - he said the equivalent of “just ask and someone will respond.” That really struck a chord for me.

I’m sure there are long time members for whom SRP no longer seems as relevant as it once did, but there are also members of similar vintage who still contribute on a regular basis and welcome and generously help newbies. The same dynamic has occurred in almost every organization to which I have belonged. Some emeritus members get frustrated seeing/hearing the same issues arise or the same questions asked that they thought had been answered long ago. Others treat their experience and memories as valuable assets and provide a kind of collective organization data bank newer members can draw from.

Even with the technical issues identified earlier, I think SRP provides a place where experienced and newbie wet shavers are able to engage in interactions and share a variety of experiences and information. I enjoy my visits to the site several times a day.

agree completely David. The info is here when you need it, as close as a question and answer. It's the people behind the questions and answers that make the group.

Good points all, in addition to the site being fragmented technically and tribally somewhat with multiple version of SRP existing on Facebook. Doesn't exactly lead to a coherent community, would be nice to see everyone under, "one roof" again.

And I agree with RobinK regarding the Wiki, and true treasure, and one of the unique treasures of SRP in my opinion.

I'm far from tech-savvy, so the issues described above are subtle nuances that mostly result as momentary annoyances for me, and then I move on.
Like many, I'm not simply here for strict empirical data. Though it would be a great option, to satisfy any question with robotic precision following the shortest path from A-Z with no silly human deviation...
The trade off would leave this place void of valuable human content.
Though some may have determined that the same questions over and over are pointless, and yes to an extent that should be moderated, to make that determination says more about where that person is at relative to their own timeline. "You" have "grown" tired of it. Definitely not alone either, as for many that feeling is an "eventuality".
But to new guys, the excitement, mystery, the lure of a strange new world is still a beautiful thing!
I'm grateful to still feel it, though I know what its like to lose that feeling.
In my opinion there's no perfect fix.
A middle ground may be found. But what some would consider a fix, could take the life out..
This is not just an encyclopedia, it's a social club, for many that is a big part of the appeal. And the combination of those elements have more appeal than either alone. IMO.

I really need to look at some of the other sections. Most of the time I'm keeping up with what the DIY guys are doing in the "What Are You Working On?" thread in The Workshop.

If you have ANY interest in restoration there is a ton of cool projects and tutorials that don't necessarily have a dedicated link in the faq type posts. Speaking of which. We need links to some of that stuff!!

Search works well for information. And more specific questions could be addressed in a post. And then you have the "askholes" who ask many questions and do exactly the opposite of what everyone is saying.

It's true that our software is by now ancient and as far as software goes a forum/discussion board is fairly ho hum anyways - organize user generated content into posts>threads>sections.
We'll get better/more modern software but fundamentally the basic functionality is the same.

I know we all appreciate the discussion and we all want to make the forum better with software that facilitates more and get's in the way less. I certainly appreciate the point that all of the components that Robin listed methodically could be improved a lot. What I would add is that those are technical issues and to me are secondary. As all of you noted, the forum is not the software or the technical stuff but all of us, the people - our knowledge and expertise, our willingness to share and help each other. The software is just a tool that makes it easier and we do want better tools.

Even if the reviews people post are not organized neatly in a dedicated software with appropriate categories and ratings, they are still highly valuable because they expand our common knowledge, and enhance our experience. I sometimes think that more organic reviews, such as what we have now, spread throughout the forum and hard to find are not all that terrible - life itself is quite messy and not neat But then other times I think it would be really spiffy if I could find what I'm looking for the moment it occurs to me

I certainly like the idea of taking a generic CMS and building a forum on top of it, as you noted the only problem is the amount of resources that it requires Not just in developing it but the subsequent maintenance. I just don't see how it can happen in the near future but may be at some point it would be an option. I know of another completely different niche (fair bit larger than ours) where the dominant forum is a completely custom platform. However, the revenue that it generates provides the full time employment for the owner who develops and maintains that platform and that has made it very sustainable. In contrast we've been operating at a loss for years and even the very basic infrastructure is subsidized with personal funds. I am sure that with time we will recover and the forum will be able to pay its bills. Until then we will probably have to use standard off-the-shelf software because it provides the lowest cost and highest value. Again, I don't think that's all that important - we as a community have always more than made up for any shortcomings in the software and have found ways to overcome them.

I have been amazed at the patience, creativity and even ingenuity of our members in working around software problems. Sometimes it's been completely unnecessary as a note to me or a moderator would've led to a fix of the problem, but still when I see the problem-solving skills people have I'm often in awe .