Thread: Canada Day

Originally Posted by STF

I learned the words immediately i got here 18 years ago.

I learned O' Canada in grade school starting in the late 1950s through early 1960s. O' Canada did not become the official national anthem till the National Anthem Act in 1980 and a change in lyrics became official in 2018. The wife and I can't remember in the past 33 years being in attendance anywhere O' Canada has been played. So, a little rusty on singing the lyrics but the tune sticks and no problem humming that.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

I learned O' Canada in grade school starting in the late 1950s through early 1960s. O' Canada did not become the official national anthem till the National Anthem Act in 1980 and a change in lyrics became official in 2018. The wife and I can't remember in the past 33 years being in attendance anywhere O' Canada has been played. So, a little rusty on singing the lyrics but the tune sticks and no problem humming that.

Bob

Being from Mn i may have heard O' Canada as many times as yourself! LOL

It is bad how the "First Nations" have been treated by the Europeans

in Canada.

But I seriously believe that they are not the FIRST.

Right or wrong something to think about.

How did they treat the people before themselves?

A little off the track here but the fact is whenever a "superior" technologically equipped people has met an inferior one the result has been extermination or near extermination of the inferior ones.

Just something to ponder for those wishing to met aliens from outer space.

Happy Canada Day guys
Bonne Fête du Canada

Originally Posted by 32t

It is bad how the "First Nations" have been treated by the Europeans

in Canada.

But I seriously believe that they are not the FIRST.

Right or wrong something to think about.

How did they treat the people before themselves?

Yes, there is no disputing First Nations peoples were treated badly by Europeans settling in Canada. I'd say badly is an understatement. The term First Nations does not include the Inuit/Eskimo peoples in Canada but for the sake of discussion it will include them.

During the last ice age virtually all of what is now Canada was covered by two ice sheets so there were not human inhabitants much less wild life or trees/plants to sustain life.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r5lMQIZY9...2BCoverage.jpg

There was also a land bridge between what is now Russia/Asia and Alaska at that time. With the melting of the ice sheets people migrating from Russia/Asia were able to slowly populate what is now called Canada. This all happened over several thousands of years. Scientists, there is that word again, studying this have found that genetic markers in First Nations and Inuit peoples are only found in peoples in Russia/Asia. This makes the First Nations and Inuit peoples the first inhabitants of what is now called Canada with no people to mistreat while they populated what is now Canada. So far there is little scientific evidence to the contrary of this being what happened.

Bob

Originally Posted by 32t

Being from Mn i may have heard O' Canada as many times as yourself! LOL

It is bad how the "First Nations" have been treated by the Europeans

in Canada.

But I seriously believe that they are not the FIRST.

Right or wrong something to think about.

How did they treat the people before themselves?

I am willing to admit I may be wrong but your statement that the First Nations in Canada were mistreated by the Europeans didn't sound right to me so I did a bit of digging.

Residential schools have a long history in Canada. The first residential facilities were developed in New France by Catholic missionaries to provide care and schooling. However, colonial governments were unable to force Indigenous people to participate in the schools, as First Nations people were largely independent and Europeans depended on them economically and militarily for survival.

However, residential schools became part of government and church policy from the 1830s on, with the creation of Anglican, Methodist, and Roman Catholic institutions in Upper Canada (Ontario). The oldest continually operating residential school in Canada was the Mohawk Institute in what is now Brantford, Ontario. This began as a day school for Six Nations boys, but in 1831 it started to accept boarding students. These colonial experiments set the pattern for post-Confederation policies.

Beginning in the 1870s, both the federal government and Plains Nations wanted to include schooling provisions in treaties, though for different reasons. Indigenous leaders hoped Euro-Canadian schooling would help their young to learn the skills of the newcomer society and help them make a successful transition to a world dominated by the strangers. With the passage of the British North America Act in 1867, and the implementation of the Indian Act (1876), the government was required to provide Indigenous youth with an education and to assimilate them into Canadian society.

The federal government supported schooling as a way to make First Nations economically self-sufficient. Their underlying objective was to decrease Indigenous dependence on public funds. The government therefore collaborated with Christian missionaries to encourage religious conversion and Indigenous economic self-sufficiency. This led to the development of an educational policy after 1880 that relied heavily on custodial schools. These were not the kind of schools Indigenous leaders had hoped to create.

Beginning with the establishment of three industrial schools on the prairies in 1883, and through the next half-century, the federal government and churches developed a system of residential schools that stretched across much of the country. Most of the residential schools were in the four Western provinces and the territories, but there were also significant numbers in northwestern Ontario and in northern Québec. New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island had no schools, apparently because the government assumed that Indigenous people there had been assimilated into Euro-Canadian culture.

At its height around 1930, the residential school system totalled 80 institutions. The Roman Catholic Church operated three-fifths of the schools, the Anglican Church one-quarter and the United and Presbyterian Churches the remainder. (Before 1925, the Methodist Church also operated residential schools; however, when the United Church of Canada was formed in 1925, most of the Presbyterian and all the Methodist schools became United Church schools.)

I'm C of E so I'm very happy to discover that my church has clean hands.

There is no C of E in Canada and Anglican is not C of E. Henry VIII did not form the Anglican Church. Just thought I would put that out there because I am pretty sure I know what's coming next

Originally Posted by STF

I am willing to admit I may be wrong but your statement that the First Nations in Canada were mistreated by the Europeans didn't sound right to me so I did a bit of digging.

Most people immigrating to Canada were from European countries up until about the 1960s when immigration patterns changed and more from non European countries started to immigrate. To say that Europeans mistreated the First Nations is, I think, basically correct as Canadians of European ancestry made up the bulk of Canada's population and still do.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...016006-eng.htm

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Most people immigrating to Canada were from European countries up until about the 1960s when immigration patterns changed and more from non European countries started to immigrate. To say that Europeans mistreated the First Nations is, I think, basically correct as Canadians of European ancestry made up the bulk of Canada's population and still do.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...016006-eng.htm

Bob

I understand what you're saying Bob but I think that saying Europeans and their offspring were responsible might be debatable. If it weren't for European immigration there would be no Canada, there isn't a person in this country except for First Nation that isn't of foreign ancestry.
i really don't think after immigrating from England it could be said if I had done something as awful as the residential schools it was because I am English or that it was the fault of the English after upping sticks and making a life here. I honestly think it was a Canadian problem regardless of the origins of the people involved, unless because most people coming from Europe means that Canada doesn't really exist except as a home away from home for us lot.

No disrespect intended of course Bob, I thought it was an interesting point.

Originally Posted by STF

I understand what you're saying Bob but I think that saying Europeans and their offspring were responsible might be debatable. If it weren't for European immigration there would be no Canada, there isn't a person in this country except for First Nation that isn't of foreign ancestry.
i really don't think after immigrating from England it could be said if I had done something as awful as the residential schools it was because I am English or that it was the fault of the English after upping sticks and making a life here. I honestly think it was a Canadian problem regardless of the origins of the people involved, unless because most people coming from Europe means that Canada doesn't really exist except as a home away from home for us lot.

No disrespect intended of course Bob, I thought it was an interesting point.

Europeans and their offspring controlled what happened in what we now call Canada from long before Confederation. Granted it took a while for that control to go from coast to coast as the Confederation grew. It is just the standard pattern of treatment of indigenous peoples seen around the globe in countries colonised by Europeans. I am sure that until recently most Canadians were blissfully unaware of full extent of the conditions First Nations people lived under. Being first generation Canadian of European dissent I was vaguely aware of the Indian Act but not what I had done to the indigenous peoples of Canada. I had little reason to know as it did not directly concern me nor was it taught in any real detail while I was in school. At this point I don't think any Canadian can not know what happened to our indigenous citizens and is still happening to them. The only thing that can be done now is to recognise this issue, the government apologise for it and hope both sides can work together to reconcile and move forward to actually improving conditions.

Bob

I have seen studies of skeletal remains, particularly skulls that showed that there is evidence that migration occurred on North and South America much earlier by Pacific Islanders as well as Egyptian mariners. I'll have to see if I can find it. So there's that.
Also, it has always seemed interesting to me that the only group that receives shame for abuses are Europeans. The abuses by American Indians on each other were at least equal if not worse in terms of severity. Truth is the European settlers we're just more successful. I'm not condoning abuse. I just will not participate in one sided self loathing. I didn't do any of it and neither did any of you. ALL people are fallen imperfect creatures and none are more upright than any other.

War is a defining trait of humans. No matter where you go or when you go it's always someone wanting to wipe this group out or that group out whether it's for economic reasons or cultural reasons or religious reasons or just good old fashioned hatred.

Sure, the various tribes had to defend their territories from others and they had definite opinions about their opponents but this was small potatoes compared to a Govt with an unofficial policy to wipe all of the natives out and a citizenry who thought they were just savages.

In the US "schools" were established to force natives to become whites. In many cases the Indian was beaten out of them. These schools were either run by religious groups or the govt itself. As in Canada we are finding unmarked graves at the sites of these schools with who knows how many bodies.