The Ukraine Situation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You guys seem to forget trump negotiated the pull out and to a great extent Biden's hands were tied. I agree he screwed it up but had he been able to undo the massive Trump screwup things might have turned out better.

---

So hurl insults it is

What you just said is a complete Lie made up to cover a bad plan, we all know this, even you know it was never true, but you repeat it because it drives you nuts that Trump was right again

You forgot Biden's people changed the timeline for Media points and got 13 AMERICANS killed and more wounded

"Biden Announces Full U.S. Troop Withdrawal From Afghanistan by Sept. 11"

Biden & Co gave them from May to Sept to plan an attack, I guess you didn't understand that part just repeated the lines as you were told. Biden was under NO obligation to follow Trump's plans and didn't anyway
He literally ignored everything else Trump did, but you want to claim this was the only thing he had to follow ???
Come on man just how ridiculous is that story ??


I warned you against taking this direction of simply hurling insults, you will get hammered with facts

Want to continue ??? Perhaps now we can hear an idea besides Money and Lives from you on Ukraine

"What is truth?" Pontius Pilate

Questioning the validity of the source is literally the oldest trick in the book.
"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” "

And so it begins.

The left wing media has made a career out of liar's poker and gaslighting. Say it enough times and do it with a straight face and it becomes true. Get some other people to say it also and it can go in the history books.

So their talking points hit their mark. Once again it comes back to blame Trump. The left is so blinded by their hatred for him it can't see the bigger picture. Why did Trump get elected? According to the left it is the fault of mindless, mouthbreathing "MAGA Republicans." Boy are you drinking the Kool-Aid! The real reason why is that there is a cultural revolution happening but it is because of factions within your own ideology. The far left agendas are being, more and more rejected by the American people. But, again, don't believe the chatter. LOOK AT THE RECORD. I would invite you to watch clips at least if not all of a Charlie Kirk rally. 10 years ago he would not have drawn a crowd. 20 years ago he would have been shouted down. Today college students line uo in droves to see.him and xheer him on against those who think they can challenge him. Maybe this doesn't ring a bell to you but it certainly does to me. I have lived in a far left college town for over 5 decades. I have seen the indoctrination up close and personal. What is happening has never happened in my life time.

MAGA Republicans aren't your enemy. Your own party is your enemy, and they are digging your party a hole they may never come out of. You could very well go the.way of.the Whigs and you won't even see it. Instead of looking within you are looking where they point. Meanwhile they are doubling down and digging your own political graves.

"The left wing media has made a career out of liar's poker and gaslighting. Say it enough times and do it with a straight face and it becomes true. Get some other people to say it also and it can go in the history books."

Would an example of this be saying an election was stolen and rigged for 4 years enough times so that people in your party believed it? Don't want to or care to get involved in this conversation, but thought that was funny. Both sides are guilty of what "truths" they like to push.

Would you play Russian roulette betting it wasn't rigged or stolen? I don't think I would but I know for sure I don't trust the media to be the arbiter. They have clearly shown their real purpose. The media is a PAC and as such they will skew events and omit facts to suit their purposes. The right wing media does too. Hey, far, be it from me say that bias and corruption is a one-sided thing especially in government.
Corruption goes along with power. It's almost inevitable at that level of power at least in the legislative branch. Even someone who starts out with good intentions, "Sure I'll back your initiative. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

I think one fundamental difference is that I recognize and admit it. I don't presume to think that everyone on the right does. But I think it's much more prevalent on the left. "No, we're not biased this is just news." The ones that kill me are the ones who say, "In the good old days we didn't have all this division. We had Walter Cronkite to tell us what was happening." And you don't think he was biased? Talk about eyes wide shut!

So much of what we know as history is already revisionist before it even goes in the books that we may never really know the real truth. If you didn't see it with your own wyes question it and even then question it anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Would you play Russian roulette betting it wasn't rigged or stolen? I don't think I would but I know for sure I don't trust the media to be the arbiter. They have clearly shown their real purpose. The media is a PAC and as such they will skew events and omit facts to suit their purposes. The right wing media does too. Hey, far, be it from me say that bias and corruption is a one-sided thing especially in government.
Corruption goes along with power. It's almost inevitable at that level of power at least in the legislative branch. Even someone who starts out with good intentions, "Sure I'll back your initiative. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

I think one fundamental difference is that I recognize and admit it. I don't presume to think that everyone on the right does. But I think it's much more prevalent on the left. "No, we're not biased this is just news." The ones that kill me are the ones who say, "In the good old days we didn't have all this division. We had Walter Cronkite to tell us what was happening." And you don't think he was biased? Talk about eyes wide shut!

So much of what we know as history is already revisionist before it even goes in the books that we may never really know the real truth. If you didn't see it with your own wyes question it and even then question it anyway

---

Since the first Radio Broadcast or T.V Broadcast a group of people get together every day and they decide what news you are going to receive. No matter if it's a local story about the mayor's pit bull biting the mailman or the President of the U.S involved in some scandal, or why we're going to war. You have to assume there is always bias of one type or another.

However when a "News" organization decides to tell blatant lies and just makes things up to benefit one group or another that is another story entirely. Now if you want to believe Fox news knowing how much they had to pay out for total lies that's your business.

There are two ways to shade the news. There is via omission and co-mission. Most of the left leaning sites use omission where they conveniently leave out news they don't like. Most right leaning sites use co-mission where they make things up. I say this based on watching both sides.

You mention Walter C. That was a whole other world. The country wasn't divided like it is now and shows that exist now didn't then. I think or hope that most realize that stations like MSNBC and Fox and news nation are not news shows they are comment and opinion. Back in the day most news was relegated to 15 minutes at 10 or 11 pm and again in the morning and that was local, national and international and the weather. There were shows like meet the press but if you look at old news reels yea most of that stuff was honest and trusted. There were plenty of places to find extreme views then too but mostly on the Radio and smaller newspapers. There was of course no internet and rumor central which is where most get their news from.

There is plenty wrong with what is going on in this world and this country and as someone who ain't that far from the 80 year mark I have much sympathy for you young whippersnappers and the mess you all will have to straighten out one way or another.

Things aint like they used to be. Probably never was." Will Rogers

"You know the good ol' days weren't always good and tomorrow aint as bad as it seems." Billy Joel

This reminds me of those hipsters who say, "things are so bad now man. We'd all be better off if we lived like the 'native americans.' " Are you insane? Crapping in a hole in the ground? Dying at 30 of an infected tooth or while in the complications of childbirth? You can't really believe that! Do you really think we are "better off" in the dark? with less information? believing what they feed you based on blind faith and never questioning it? It's important to recognize the difference between blissful ignorance and happay as a clam (spoiler alert: clams have no sense of consciousness).

Information is knowledge. Knowledge is power. The problem is we have tried to hide our children from the things we don't think they're ready for instead of teaching them our values and trusting them to have listened and learned it.

Edit: and by the way, I disagree with you about your assessment of the left and right media's modis operandi. The left wing media does plenty of lying and fabricating fake news.

Truth be told though I played a little bit of devil's advocate there. On the one hand it is true that knowledge is power but power is a drug that is maybe too intoxicating and way too addictive. I do believe that we forget about the bad things in days gone by and focus on all the negatives today neglecting to see the redeeming qualities. But I'm torn. I grew up before smart phones and social media and even the internet. We came out alright without them. But life was harder then in some ways but easier in others. Fact is we are where we are and I don't know that we can turn it back minus Armegeddon. But I do wondee if we would be better off without it all. There are trade offs, none of them without price.

One thing I will say that I do truly believe. We are stuck in this together and talking it out is a good thing, even if we.disagree, even strongly so. It helps us to find answers and hopefully come to some agreement some day.

Maybe.

The old adage "The good old days" are and have always been a bunch of bunk. They never were good just folks forgetting the bad and remembering what they think was good.

But, that has nothing to do with the issue of truth.

It is very, very sad indeed that things have gotten so bad that most simply can't fathom a time when most got together and what you saw and read mainstream could be accepted as generally being the truth. Sure there were disagreements and factions and bad blood between some but nothing even remotely like what we have now. Historically, the country (in the end) has been able to sort out the crazy stuff and return to normalcy. However this is different. The old saying of the inmates taking over the asylum is exactly what is going on now.

I see it in this neck of the woods. Folks are just on a short fuse and treat each other badly just itching for a fight.