Thread: The Ukraine Situation

I was just wondering what everyone thought about the current situation in that part of the world.

Who do you support? Do you think Putin is justified or flat out wrong with a capitol W.

I understand he threatened Finland and Sweden if they joined NATO.

Do you think this will expand and turn into WWlll?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I was just wondering what everyone thought about the current situation in that part of the world.

OK, I'll go first.

Who do you support? Do you think Putin is justified or flat out wrong with a capitol W.

I support neither. Both sides of my family are from there -- father's parents from Ukraine (Zaslav), mother's parents from "White Russia"/Belarus (Minsk) -- but they left during the 1890s, so I've got no skin in the game.

I think Putin is justified. I also think that the US has played a dangerous game by adding countries from the former USSR (and its "satellites") to NATO, insofar as doing so has removed much-or-all geographic buffers between Western Europe and Russia. That is, even the idea of having NATO missiles in Ukraine -- Russia's next-door neighbor -- is unacceptable.

I understand he threatened Finland and Sweden if they joined NATO.

Dunno... IIRC, they're OK with their "neutrality".

Do you think this will expand and turn into WWlll?

Nope. Ukraine isn't part of NATO; heck, NATO really isn't part of NATO, anymore. We (the US) drew-down our forces in West Germany post-1989, following German reunification, so we're no longer in a position to become involved. As for West European countries, I don't see them going to war; certainly not Germany! And France? I doubt it. So who's left? Those countries that were part of the USSR, and those that were "satellites" of the USSR. I don't see any of them fighting (at least, not over Russian reclamation of all-or-part of Ukraine).

This is what is happening in my view. Putin's move into Ukraine can not be justified no matter what he claims his reasoning is. That matters not. What does matter is it has given the new alliance, Russia/China, a chance on the world stage to become very important. That might have been Putin's real reason for invading the Ukraine with China's acquiescence. You now have two choices. Does the West go to war with Russia over Ukraine which is not likely given NATO's charter, or does the West engage with the New Alliance seeking a diplomatic solution? Who knows, there might be a few more chest pieces to be put on the board yet.

OTH, there is always the possibility that some isolated local incident between Russian and Western military units that escalates out of control. That would clear the carefully laid out chess board and then you have to deal with the fog of war.

A hell of a game all sides are playing for very high stakes.

Bob

Could a Mod fix the title to this thread. It's Ukraine not The Ukraine. sheeesh

Ukraine, It depends on what you want to believe. You won’t find the truth from mainstream media though.
My understanding is that Ukraine has always remained part of Russia and Putin has been invited in to remove the Khazarian mafia who have been running the place since 2014 following a corrupt election rigged by the CIA and George Soros’ gang.






For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter"?
This is why Ukraine matters.
It is the largest country by area in Europe and has a population of over 40 million.
Ukraine ranks
:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country
:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country
:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

A wise man a long time ago once said that only the dead will not see any more war. Anything can be rationalized anyway. It's complicated of course. I hope the best thing happens. But I don't know what that is.

I personally don't think that another country ever has the right to invade and install their own Govt, annex or conquer another country regardless of their perceived justification. That is exactly how Britain got into war with Germany in 1939.

I think Putin could have at least started by airing his grievances and trying some diplomacy.

He has made veiled threats that if any other country gets in his way he will press the button and I think he's capable of doing it.

It has been said that however World War III is fought, World War IV will be fought with bows and arrows.

Putin has already warned Finland about even thinking of joining NATO. Finland has fought 2 wars with the old Soviet Union and lost territory to them and had to pay massive repatriations to them after WWII. Putin's style of dealing with neighbouring countries seems not much different from the old Soviet Union. New boss same as the old boss.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Putin has already warned Finland about even thinking of joining NATO. Finland has fought 2 wars with the old Soviet Union and lost territory to them and had to pay massive repatriations to them after WWII. Putin's style of dealing with neighbouring countries seems not much different from the old Soviet Union. New boss same as the old boss.

Bob

I suppose you can't expect to much civility from an ex high KGB Officer.

Yeah the Russians. They get invited places. They got "invited" to Czechoslovakia in 1968, stayed till 1989.
Why do you think the Czechs joined the NATO? It was the previous experience with their Slavic brothers.