Thread: Motorcycles

For me, above a certain point more cc's doesn't equal better bike. But I accept that to some it does. .. it all depends on what gives you satisfaction when riding.

It's like with with cars... do you want the thrill of a Hemi that will burn rubber at the light... or a mini-cooper S that will stick like glue on the curves... or something that will do both? Well, if you want a motorcycle that does wheelies and rockets away from the red light, then usually the more cc's the better. But if you are just interested in being able to go anywhere you want at a decent speed, something in the 500 or better range will do just fine. Either way you want the best handling bike you can afford.

For years I rode a 600cc bike... it would cruise all day at 85mph... up hill and down... with or w/o a passenger. I really don't know how fast it would go... I had it over 100 a couple times, but then I'd start thinking about flat tires and seagulls and such... and slow down.

The seagull thing... one time I was riding and ahead of me a seagull took to flight, flapping and flapping as hard as it could, but it was coming straight at me down the center of the road and there was nowhere for me to go at the speed I was traveling. Now, a gull is not exactly a small bird... and running into one at 60mph would be like getting hit with a cannon ball and their beak could stab like a knife. I just ducked down behind the mini-windshield with my face pressed against the top of the tank, prepared for the hit and hoping for the best. Fortunately at the last instant it gained enough altitude to just graze the top of the windshield, leaving a bird $hit streak as a reminder of what could have been.

I often took that bike on weekend trips with a group of other riders... we might leave central NJ Friday night and pitch camp in NY, ride to the mountains of New Hampshire and camp Saturday night, return to NJ late Sunday. I didn't often carry a passenger, but I always had saddle bags full of camping necessities and a luggage rack piled high with a cooler full of food and a case of beer. The bigger cc bikes in the group could certainly outrun me on the straightaways... and often did, egos being what they are. But in the curves I always showed them who's boss since my bike handled extremely well, even with the load I was carrying.

Originally Posted by azjoe

For me, above a certain point more cc's doesn't equal better bike. But I accept that to some it does. .. it all depends on what gives you satisfaction when riding.

+1, I've owned bikes from 650cc (dual-sport) -1100cc (sportbike)and I had more fun and put more miles on the BMW F650GS than everything else combined. It'd easily do 80mph all day on flats/in mountains/etc., was very light, low center of gravity, comfortable, sipped gas and with all the niceties too (ABS, heated grips, etc.).

I was warned away from it as as being "underpowered" for someone my size (6'1 265) at the time. All a bunch of BS.... never felt it lacked power, hell its 1/4mi time is a little better than the Nissan 350z, and easily the most fun to ride for me. All the power it had was easily available in practical situations too unlike the sportbike in which everything after 2nd gear was beyond any legal limit (if you were keeping it in the sweet spot).

It was also a lot more maneuverable than my cruiser or sportbike in urban scenarios and easier to ride fast in the canyons. *sigh* I never should have sold that bike... if only it had depreciated faster and hadn't been worth so much. I will own another one of these days though.

Ant

I just thought of another advantage to getting an SV650.. It's a very popular bike, so used ones should be easy to find at reasonable prices. As it was mentioned, chances are you will dump your ride once or twice (4 times in the first 3 weeks of riding my baby, none ever since). It's easier on your heart if you dump a bike that already has some "character"

AZJoe-
I am definitely more interested in a bike that handles very well, as opposed to one that is really fast, accelerates really fast, has the ability to do wheelies, etc. I am not going to test the power/speed of any bike I get. I can't imagine going over 80mph on the highway, and I'm quite sure I will be much closer to 55mph for a long while. Again, I am VERY conservative by nature when driving a car, let alone what I imagine I would do on an MC.

So, when you say something in the 500cc+ range would be good, would the 883cc of the lower end HD sportster exceed that range (I guess I'm asking how mann cc's the "+" implies)?

Another poster pointed out that it's more the weight of the bike than the cc's that are important in regards to being able to handle it. The sporster weighs about 580 lbs (the HD touring bikes weigh around 780), and the low end Suzuki Boulevard S40 weighs about 360 lbs., for sake of comparison. Again, I'm about 6'1", 205 lbs., and pretty strong.

I know at the MSF course offered at HD, you learn on a Buell Blast, which I believe is 500cc... sounds like that's the perfect bike to serve as a foundation.

thanks again...
Andrew

If I were you, I'd start on something that's between 350 and 500lbs. That will be easier to control when just starting out. 800 goes way beyond. I mean you could learn on it, but why make your life difficult?

Originally Posted by str8_razr

Another poster pointed out that it's more the weight of the bike than the cc's that are important in regards to being able to handle it. The sporster weighs about 580 lbs (the HD touring bikes weigh around 780), and the low end Suzuki Boulevard S40 weighs about 360 lbs., for sake of comparison. Again, I'm about 6'1", 205 lbs., and pretty strong.

It's also about distribution of weight. A lower center of gravity with more weight is easier to handle than a higher cog in some cases. If a top-heavy 500lb bike wants to go over at a stop light/in the garage/etc. it usually will and strength isn't that big of an issue. The bike almost always has better leverage than you do sitting on it or standing over it. Of course, once it has fallen over strength does help somewhat to get it back up until you better learn how to lift a bike. It also helps if you have to push your bike home for a couple of miles.

Again there are always compromises and I'd recommend getting a bike that physically fits you (ie not cramped, etc.) but try for the lightest, lowest displacement bike that is comfortable for you and has enough power to drive slightly above your intended usage in the near-mid term. In other words don't get something not highway capable if you need that but don't get a Goldwing now because you'd like to work up to cross country trips.

You're probably never going to get 100% consensus on what to get so its best to sit test a bunch, do your research and error on the side of caution IMO. The SV650 is a good bike but some people don't like it for beginners either (power to weight and torque usually among things cited as why), meanwhile others tout it as the optimum choice... regardless of whether there is a "right" answer, its still a lot better choice than a Road King or a Hayabusa to start on.

Some of the mid-size dual-sports are great for taller people to start on because they're relatively cheap, tall (unlike some of the smaller cruisers/sportbikes which can feel a little cramped), don't have a lot of shiny parts to scratch up, don't have too much power but have enough for most usage, and are light and nimble. If your inseam is long enough to flat foot it something like the KLR650 could be a great choice. Granted they're not as sexy as a lot of the other choices but it gives you a solid platform to develop skills on.

Ant

Originally Posted by str8_razr

So, when you say something in the 500cc+ range would be good, would the 883cc of the lower end HD sportster exceed that range (I guess I'm asking how mann cc's the "+" implies)?

Another poster pointed out that it's more the weight of the bike than the cc's that are important in regards to being able to handle it. The sporster weighs about 580 lbs (the HD touring bikes weigh around 780), and the low end Suzuki Boulevard S40 weighs about 360 lbs., for sake of comparison. Again, I'm about 6'1", 205 lbs., and pretty strong.

Riding a MC and riding a bicycle have a lot of similarities...

• At low speed you steer with the handlebars, at high speed you must lean to turn.
• Both when you 're cornering at high speed and when you're stopping... if you hit sand, gravel, wet leaves, etc. you slide and possibly loose control and down you go.

But there's some important differences in those similarities...

• subtle movements (weight transfer... ie, "leaning") on a bicycle doesn't affect what happens much... on a MC they can.
• on a bicycle you can physically overpower a situation (ie, throw your weight around, prevent a fall by jambing a leg down, etc.) and avoid many mishaps... on a MC you can't do that very often, particularly as a beginning rider.

Now, in my mind...

• many new rider problems occur when you're traveling at VERY low speed/almost stopped. Everyone I know has dropped their MC in a parking lot... you're just not paying attention, it gets over center and down it goes. Your natural instinct is to recover like you do with a bicycle... so you stick out a leg to catch yourself, etc. Now, the difference is the bicycle weighs 20-lbs and the MC weighs 300 to 600-lbs, depending on which model you have. If you have a big bike, you better resign yourself to letting it fall.
• When you steer with the handlebars (again, because it's natural... that's what you did with your bicycle) a light weight MC is more responsive, but a heavy MC gets outta control pretty easily... again tending to then fall over or run into the side of a nearby car, etc.
• when beginners are first learning to ride bicycles and motorcycles, occasionally a new rider will panic at leaning in a curve and drive off into the woods. I've seen lots of little kids on bicycles do it and a few MC riders, as well. The key here is you have to learn to trust that when you lean the bike it will turn, that applying a little power will help hold your track, that too much power will cause you to spin out, etc. Every MC will handle differently... and when you get new tires you'll need to rediscover where the limits are. The key elements here are YOU, how well balanced the MC is, and how sensitive the throttle response is. Fast rev'ingbikes with sensitive throttles are easily spun out by a beginner... lower powered slow rev'ing bikes are not.
• when your 20-lb bicycle falls over and you're underneath, you simply stand up. When your 300-lb MC falls over on you you probably can lift it up enough to get pout from under it. When your 600-lb MC falls on you, you might be pinned under there until someone else helps get you out from under... and consider that you might have a hot exhaust pressed against your leg while you're pinned there... not a pretty thing.

A huge number of people I know learned to ride on Vespa scooters, Honda 50's and 90's etc. These are great because they are light, very maneuverable, and you have a tough time exceeding 50mph with them. Hence it's hard to get into too much trouble at a speed you can't control. They're good to learn the basics on, although I wouldn't say they're the safest thing to ride in a highway environment... but around town they're great. If your MC "road test" includes weaving through a string of cones you'll have no problem with a small bike... but I've seen very experienced riders fail such tests with full dress Harley's and Gull Wings. That said, there are lots of us that learned on big bikes, too... the first MC I ever drove was my (crazy) brother's 1954 Harley 74... ie, a "Hog". I was scared to death of the thing just driving it around my Brother's neighborhood... yet he would take it out and run in the sand dunes. But I bought it from him when he was sent to Viet Nam and eventually became comfortable riding it (although I honestly never loved it). I traded it for a 650 Triumph, and then that for a BSA. I like both of them a lot... they were fast and noisy... just what a young stud needed, LOL. (But neither would start when they were damp... damn, how did you Brits ever survive with Bosch electrics pre 1980?). Since I lived in rural Western Pennsylvania then, most of my riding was confined to dirt, gravel, and some 2-lane paved roads. So in reality, you can learn on anything.

So, getting back to your question... what cc's is too big?

I guess I'll say I don't think it's precisely just a cc thing... it's more a combination of YOU, where you'll be riding, and the balance, weight, power, and torque of the bike.

• Take a light weight 250cc dirt bike for example... it might weigh 250-lbs. but it likely has a lot of torque for it's size... hence you can do a wheelie or spin out pretty easily if you mismanage the gears and throttle... probably not the best choice for a learn to ride bike unless you're pretty gutsy.
• Or, consider a 700-lb full dress Honda Gull Wing... you probably couldn't do a wheelie without the help of a crane, but if it starts to fall over in the parking lot you might find it difficult to do anything other than let it fall... again, not a good choice unless you're an ultra conservative rider.
• Your 833 Sportster will have a street weight about 600-lbs... I wouldn't think it's very nimble for a beginner at that weight.
• Someone mentioned the BMW F650... (I'd probably pick the G650: 650cc @ 350-lbs street weight), which would seem to be a decent compromise although I haven't even sat on one, so I can't vouch for how it handles.
• Even the BMW R1200R (1200cc @450-lbs street weight) is a possibility, but I think it's more power than a beginner needs.

As you can see, MC's come in a wide variety of weight/cc combos. The bottom line is they'll all blow wind through your hair. So what's the right one for you?

Well, you probably already know whether you prefer the throaty sound of a Harley, or the whine a high-rev Jap bike, or the quietness of a BMW or big Honda... so you've already made the first cut at your choices. Next, you should go hang out in the showrooms, sit on them, talk to other customers hanging around and listen to their experiences. This will give you some pros/cons of different models, accessories and options... just make sure you keep in mind that most of these people will be pro the brand showroom you're in, so take that into consideration if you're comparing several different brands. Eventually, you should have it narrowed down to a couple possibilities.

Then, after you have ridden (assuming the school provides the bike) long enough to get through training and a license, you are then ready to take your favorite(s) for a test ride. Ask the dealer if he will allow you to keep it over a weekend, for example. Or maybe the dealer sponsors a club and will loan/rent you a bike for one of their rides. Regardless of how you do it, you won't know if the bike right is right for you until you've ridden it in a variety of situations. That's why so many riders go through a couple bikes before they settle on one for the long haul... they made their choice based on looks, sound, ego, etc. instead of what rides best for them.

i been going thru the same ordeal debating a new cruiser style beginner bike. not wanting to spend a ton of $$ on a first bike i might drop/ruin. i came up with this.


Honda Shadow (comes in 600/750/1100cc) ..myself being 6'3 and 230lbs i'd prolly opt for the 750 to start. it looks like a cruiser but isn't expensive at all. infact if you live near a city check www.craigslist.com there are alot on there. buy one thats 2/3years old and learn. then if you like it and wanna keep going buy a big boy. thats going to be my plan.

examples:
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/419530110.html

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/422483854.html

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/419860764.html


~J

ps. you seen some of the cruisers from victory motorcycles? arlen ness series is pretty sweet.
http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-...ry/2007Models/