Thread: Computer/program help

Originally Posted by Bruno

That is indeed correct. Sorrage (HDD or SSD) is how much permanent storage you have for pictures, documents, programs, .....
Memory is what the computer uses when it's working on something. If you open a picture for example, the contents are loaded in memory where the CPU can perform operations on it.

How much memory you need depends on what sort of things you generally do with your computer.
It pays to keep in mind that your computer is also doing a gazillion things in the background. Behind the scenes, memory is allocated (reserved is a way to think about it), used, resized, de-allocated again etc. Having a lot of free memory helps a lot because the memory manager doesn't have to do much effort to find free blocks whenever some program or the operating itself needs a block. You can think of your compute rmemory as a big parking lot for 1000 cars. Logically, you can fit 1000 cars. But if there are only 500 cars, finding a spot is easy and if occasionally, someone needs to park a semi or a winnebago, the parking lot manager doesn't need to reshuffle the cars to make that possible. So even if you only ever need to park 500 cars and the occasional semi, having space for 1000 cars means there is never a hassle.

So to take that back to the discussion at hand, I would say 8 GB is the very minimum. But I advise 16 GB because if you are a regular, casual computer user, 16 GB is more than enough to never experience issues. And I would make sure there are free slots for adding memory at a later stage in case you ever need to for some reason. I would make sure of this because adding memory is the single best upgrade you can do if you run into performance issues, in terms of bang for the buck.

That said, if you choose a computer now and going from 16 to 32 now for only 50$ in case of special deals or whatever, I would do that and be done with it because it means your computer has enough resources to outlive you.

Something to know: Computer memory (RAM) comes in "sticks" -- longish (but not very tall) PCBs (printed circuit boads) -- that fit into slots on the computer's "motherboard". These "sticks" (actually, called "memory modules") must all be the same "size" (memory size; that is 2GB, 4GB, 8GB, etc). There are, usually, four such slots. Here's the "tricky" part: Many times, the seller will advertise a computer as having, say, "8GB RAM", but use four 2GB modules. What's the problem? This: Since all modules must be the same size, if you want to, say, double the RAM, you'll have to remove all four sticks, and replace them with 1x16 or 2x8 or 4x4 (and not all motherboards support using a single memory module).

IOW, ya gotta do yer homework (and/or post a link to the computer ya wanna buy, and ask for feedback... before ya "pull the trigger").

Thank you both for explaining this. I have my eye on a computer but am still holding off on buying to get more funds together. The details on it are not great. Meaning it doesnt say exactly what type of memory or specs on bluetooth, wifi, or if it has extra slots.

I need to see if i can locate the same unit on another site to find more details possibly.

In the next month i will be buying and i may post a link.

And with Bruno's terminology, at 32gb and the way i use a computer i would have room for parking and 100 semi truck races and not be pressed for room.

Eeerrrr... I'll have to come back on what JBHoren said which used to be exact.

First on the pairing of RAM : it's not mandatory anymore on most systems. You have to determine generation (Like DDR3 or DDR4) for compatibility, and knowing the frequency is an added bonus.
But if you start with say 8Go (4+4) of DDR4 at 1333Mhz, you can swap in a 16Go DDR4 at 1666Mhz and get.... Well 20Go DDR4 at 1333Mhz (lowest frequency of both).
Not overly dramatic, gives you a lot of leeway in terms of choice. *
That being said, you have to be extra careful when you buy because you could have only ONE slot, and worst case scenario it will be soldered in (but that's mostly for laptops)

And as for the format... Hard Drives can come in sticks now (NVMe SDD drives do)

Now for the different kinds of memory

Cache memory
Is what sits closest to the CPU, and as such is the fastest available. But it can't be swapped, and is very small.
It's your two hands when you shave

RAM
Holds the content of your current active tasks.
It's your bathroom workplane, with your current razor, brush, soap, etc.
When you are done, you put everything away, and you will have to get everything back later, but for now it's very practical to have everything on hand.

Hard drive
Is your storage. Contains your shaving stuff, your honing stuff, your soap making stuff, whatever you have. When you need it, it takes time because you have to take everything back from your closets.
You actually have a lot of options in terms of data storage, but on a home computer you will find either a HDD (Hard Disk Drive) or a SSD (Solid State Drive).
HDDs are mecanical devices, with an actual head moving up and down a stack of disks to read and store data. They are mechanically fragile, have poor performances, but are "dirt cheap" in terms of storage cost. At a time every disk was a HDD.
SSDs are like "super powered USB Keys", they are technologically closer to RAM, and boy do they go fast. But they are smaller, because every byte is pricey.

Virtual Memory
Now, programmers seldom handle "which kind of memory" they are going to use anymore. I mean, the average programmer wouldn't even know how to do it.
The computer automatically chooses which kind of memory it will use.

If, for example, the RAM is overwhelmed, then the computer will start "swapping", which means it will more frequently empty the workbench into a cupboard to reach another thing from another one.
Think about cooking : if your workspace is 2sq feet large, you will have to "swap" your utensils more often than if you had a large counter.
If you have these fancy drawers (SSD) you find in modern kitchens, that can be quite easy to do. But if you still have grandmothers huge cupboard, it's gonna be a hassle.

What it means
it means it's about what you want to do, really, and not always about RAM.
16G is what I would advise for too in this day and age on a windows, but it does not have to be so. It's a general advice because Windows and your average web browser are memory hogs.
But, at the same time, it's not always the first thing you need to upgrade. Simply swapping a HDD for a SSD can transform a shitty old computer in something absolutely decent. I've done it a few times lol.

Sometimes... In the extreme, right... Ditching the Gilette Fusion and going back to a generic DE is the correct move.
I've bought a few years on a computer just by going back to a non fancy Linux. There are a few linux distros than can do a lot of things for less than half of the hardware needs of an up to date windows.

One last thing : video performance
A decisive aspect in the price of a computer nowadays is whether it comes with a top tier or low tier graphic card.
These things have their own performances and memory types.
Mostly, what you might want is to simply display properly, and any cheap video card will do that. Heck, just go with the one integrated with the motherboard, it will do just fine.

But some of them are extremely pricey because they come with a lot of added "powers", such as the ability to handle matrix and high order geometric and algebric functions just by the way they are built "differently from the rest".
You absolutely want none of that unless you are in one of these very specific three conditions :
a) You want to play the latest games (that's what they are initially for) but then unless you are a competitor, just buy a console for half the price
b) You are a crypto miner and you NEED THAT HASHRATE
c) You train machine learning models

Really, once you take that out of the equation, you can get a run of the mill, off the counter, pretty decent machine, for not too much

Thank you for that info. Sone of it has helped.
As for graphic cards i know im not in need of anything more than what will come on the motherboard.

Not I would like more than the standard when it comes to audio as music is a big thing to me. But Ive read another option is to have an external sound card. Something that can have digital audio out of computer. Than run speakers or headphone from it.

Now my audio and video collections equal close to a TB. So for storage id really like to have a min of 2TB. Room to grow.

So i have learned a lot lately. And what ive been looking at is 32gb ram just as that is what the nachines im looking at come with.

I use my computer to do radio control also. Being a Ham I have 7 different items connected through usb to operate my radio system so multiple usb ports are important. I would need like 12 just to be ready for charging and other items so en external added rack of usb is needed.

Anyway, if anyone else has info to share im listening.

USB Hubs are dirt cheap. Mine is 18 but be careful cause some equipment will need to be connected directly to the computer. My Sound Card is a Sound Blaster External. I prefer that to the internal card which is part of the motherboard.

I have a mac now but when i had a PC I had a hub that plugged in to the electrical outlet and supplied it own power to anything plugged into it so the load on the psu was reduced.

I do have a hub now that plugs into the wall. But its not connected to the computer. So i cant use it for both purposes. That would have been a smarter move if I had known better when I bought it.

You say some devices must be plugged in direct? I hadn't thought of that. Something else I need to look into closer i guess.

Ive been looking at the Sound Blaster. They have a few versions out. External sound like the way to go. But I need to be sure I have a digital output on the computer or I might as well be using A/V cables. Too much loss going that route. So if you know, what is the best option for digital output of a computer?
Hdmi?

USB is the standard digital output. HDMI is mostly for display though they use display port too.

The correct kind of USB could handle any kind of input/output.

Best case scenario, USB can even handle display on several screens.
Worst case scenario, it can handle some basic peripherals.

But man, the USB standard right now is a mess.
For bandwidth heavy applications (sound card, for example) it would be best to plug directly on a USB 3 port on the computer.
But there is USB 3... And there is USB 3.

To be safe on the long run, you might want at least a port that can do power delivery or one which does alternate modes, which will be indicated by its ability to handle display port. (most of the time, if it can do one it can do both)
A standard USB 3 (let's assume 3.0 or 3.2 gen 1 which is the same) can provide up to 15W, with power delivery it goes up to 100W (or even 240W for the extended version which I have never seen in the wild)

Now my audio and video collections equal close to a TB. So for storage id really like to have a min of 2TB. Room to grow.

Taking that into account, plus the fact that you do backups... You might appreciate to have a NAS (network attached storage).

Basically, it's a "mini computer" only dedicated to... Let's say "cold" storage. Refering to what I wrote earlier, sometimes the need is performance, and that's why I recommend a SSD as a system hard drive.
What a NAS provides is not performance, but storage size, availability and reliability.
It can be used on your computer almost seamlessly as any other drive and it's fast enough for video or audio reading operations. (recording directly to a NAS is not advisable though)
You will need to put a specific type of mechanical hard drive inside, such as a WD Red (current price on amazon : 100€ for 6T) which are made specifically for this kind of applications.

Even better you can put two such hard drives and the NAS will have redundancy allowing to keep your data even if one of the disks fails.

I went with Topper30 for a DAC and the Topper amp to power my speakers. This has a headphone or speaker option so thats nice.

Then today i got my computer in the mail. Excuse me if i dont use all the proper terms but...

MSI Ageis
13 gen i7 13700F
W11
32gb ram
2tb hdd
1tb ssd
Gtx 3060 gpu
2.0 to 3.2 gen 2 usb ports.
Hdmi and display ports.
Lots of pretty lights and 6 fans.

Ok, maybe i went a little overboard but hell, my other computer i kept for 8+ years. Maybe this one will last that long too.