Thread: HELP! HVAC & Regulatory Capture

I have a 2-ton, Goodman split-system A/C: condenser outside, air handler inside -- installed 5/2012. The condenser "died" this past July, and I had it replaced (same A/C contractor as before) with a newer unit (the previous condenser was discontinued, and no replacement coil available). Works like a champ -- for $2,500 it had better.

Problem: He didn't pull a permit. WTF not? Because in order to obtain a permit, my municipality requires that both parts be replaced with "compatible" units. But the air handler works fine! (if it ain't broke, why "fix" it?).

Nope. The municipality says both units have to be listed as "compatible" on the AHRI (Air Conditioning, Heating, and Refrigeration Institute) tables... and these aren't. Now, the AHRI doesn't perform its own testing; it gets tables of matching units from the manufacturers. But... the manufacturers only test units within given "families" of their product lines -- not between actually-compatible, "cross-family" units of their own product lines.

I called the AHRI -- they refused to speak with me... only with manufacturers.
I called Goodman -- they refused to connect me with Technical Support (only for "in-the-trade")

So, this is another example of regulatory capture. That is, the municipality wants to "protect" me/us from "unscrupulous" or "unknowing" individuals (think: fly-by-night roofs and driveways). The inspector isn't an HVAC engineer or vo-tech school graduate, nor was he ever an HVAC employee. Neither is his boss. OTOH, my contractor is -- a vo-tech school graduate, state-certified, with 20+ years hands-on experience in HVAC... and he knows Goodman (he's one of their distributors) and he knows what's compatible.

How can I fight City Hall... and win? The new, "compatible" air handler will cost me $2,000 installed.

Original condenser: Goodman VSX130241
Original air handler: Goodman AWUF240516
New condenser: Goodman GSXM402410AA

regulatory capture My new term for the day.

I have experienced this but have not heard it stated this way.

Can you argue that they must prove that the evaporator is not "compatible" with the condenser?

Originally Posted by 32t

regulatory capture My new term for the day.

I have experienced this but have not heard it stated this way.

Google "Professional Managerial Class" -- it's what/who run the country, not the politicians. Every law that's legislated (at the federal, state, and local level) spawns dozens (often hundreds) of regulations. That's the Deep State.

Can you argue that they must prove that the evaporator is not "compatible" with the condenser?

That would be my choice, but my guess is that their approach is: "If they're not listed as compatible, then they're not compatible."

Pray, how did the city know the condenser unit had been changed?
Also, an air handler 21 years old may not even be 'compatability considered' in current MFG charts. They DO want you to do both at once! Whether you need it or not.
Would be a call for comparing of specifications/experience. It's done all the time!

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Pray, how did the city know the condenser unit had been changed?

Inspectors "cruise" condo developments and place ID codes (sticker or marking) on outside units. When they discover a new (unmarked) one, they check for a record of the permit. So, new condenser w/no ID marking...

Also, an air handler 21 years old may not even be 'compatability considered' in current MFG charts. They DO want you to do both at once! Whether you need it or not.

11 years-old, not 21. Again, the original pair were "charted" as compatible -- that's all that matters... they could be 20 years-old, but all that counts is this "compatibility" at time of installation.

Would be a call for comparing of specifications/experience. It's done all the time!

Yup, they could compare old (current) air handler and new condenser specs to see, but they only want AHRI-supplied tabular data. "That ain't workin', that's the way ya do it; money for nuthin' and yer chicks for free."

Send um a picture of his kid, and ask if the multi colored, and mixed matched clothing he's wearing is not compatible with u and God the creator. Attach it to the letter and return it back to him.

Not sure I understand: do you own the house, or is it shared infrastructure (like a condo or so)?
I get that you need permits for zoning etc. I don't quite see how a HVAC unit that only affects you needs regulation.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Not sure I understand: do you own the house, or is it shared infrastructure (like a condo or so)?
I get that you need permits for zoning etc. I don't quite see how a HVAC unit that only affects you needs regulation.

It's a condo, which I own. The need for "regulation"? I would be happy if the permitting was to protect me from "fly-by-night" operators, but that's not the case; rather, IMO it's a (one of many) money-grabbing operations of the municipality -- which they all do... create "needs" for regulations, but it's really just a way to generate income.

Gestapo tactics one would expect in CA. What sort of loser would have the job of going around condos and checking numbers on A/C outside components.
He likely lives in his Mom's basement. He has 'power'.
I suppose they have the power to bust your door down and check the rest?

I would write DeSantis and ask him about that in his 'Free State'.

I expect it is like buying a gas car and being taxed and inspected to the poor house on gas and emissions inspections vs being handed 75k toward an electric car.
I should shut up. They are already watching me.....

I had to replace my A/C System 1.5 years ago so I got an earful. They told me 15-20 is the average life and that's here where the system runs 7 months a year. He also told me Goodman is builders grade stuff. Also much of the newer stuff is designed to work as a system with components communicating with each other and in many cases if it's not a match it either won't run at all of not the way it's supposed to.

Of course all this is from an HVAC guy so who knows.