McCain frightens me!!!

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I sure hope you're right. Other translations I have read (of that particular quote) quoted him thus: "The current Zionist regime must vanish from the pages of time." I don't trust the leadership of Iran at all - can someone cite an example of a reason anyone should? (I'm not talking about the US or Europe or anyone else, simply the integrity or lack of it among the current Iranian leadership)

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Devil's advocate for a moment here:

- Bush's rethoric about Iran and the axis of evil is identical to what Iran says about the US. the words are different, but the tone is the same.
- Bush said he wants to deal with the Iran problem before he leaves office (though this topic seems to have died, luckily)
- The US invaded Iraq (a sovereign nation) on false pretenses. Iran did no such thing. Iran did have a long war with Iraq (which basically ended because both sides ran out of soldiers to sacrifice) which was supported by the US government in one form or the other at various points in time

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Devil's advocate for a moment here:

- Bush's rethoric about Iran and the axis of evil is identical to what Iran says about the US. the words are different, but the tone is the same.
- Bush said he wants to deal with the Iran problem before he leaves office (though this topic seems to have died, luckily)
- The US invaded Iraq (a sovereign nation) on false pretenses. Iran did no such thing. Iran did have a long war with Iraq (which basically ended because both sides ran out of soldiers to sacrifice) which was supported by the US government in one form or the other at various points in time

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So are you saying that neither leadership is to be trusted? Or is one more trustworthy than the other? I am really wondering if there is anyone who has been posting here who trusts the Iranian leadership. It's so easy to say, "Well, I don't want to answer that, but let me tell you how wrong the USA is." It's harder to objectively look at Iranian leadership policy and judge it based solely on its own stated principles and philosophies

I trust Iran about as much as I trust Venezuela. I by no means am a sympathizer, but there's so much unfounded rhetoric and misinformation against them at the moment that I can't help but try and explain.

"The current Zionist regime must vanish from the pages of time." is proably the most accurate quote out there (he was also quoting a former Ayatolla) all it really means is he wants the regime to fall. Considering he went on to compare the fall of the regime of Jeresulem to the fall of the Shah's regime in Iran it's pretty safe to say he's hoping for an internal revolt.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Except if said force is suddenly staying, installing a puppet government, building bases, tapping oil and showing no intention to leave.
It's almost like the US wants to turn Iraq in a colony.

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Frankly if our goal was sated as to be for stealing all their oil I'd have voted for the war. I think we would be better of if we had carpet bombed the whole country back to the desert from which it sprung then sent in a bunch of Texan drillers to start piping the black stuff right over here.

I figure there will be a world resource war over oil within the next two decades, it will be the US and its allies against China and hers in the battle ground of the oil producing nations. Hopefully neither side pops to many nukes anywhere important.

Frankly I think the US has historically been more than generous as a superpower, and it might just be time to let a little imperial ambition out. I mean Rome got to do it, then the Turks, Then the Franks, Then the Spanish, Then the English and even the French. Its our turn to try empire building. We ought to try the water empire model, for the first time globally by controlling oil.

Wild tim, whatever happened to those empires?

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Originally Posted by Nickelking

I assume that the open opposition of the Revolutionary Guards refers to the claim that they're training operatives in Iraq (a silly claim to even entertain considering that it would mean supporting a Shia government) that claim has been denied by Iraqi government officials and our government has yet to provide any proof for it (though a few weeks ago they called off a press conference to display Iranian made weapons when none could be found.)

Yes, Khamenei has said some harsh things about the US, but we've said some pretty harsh things about Iran. he's made it clear for quite some time that he'd really prefer there to be no relationship with the United States, but we like to butt in.

As for Amadinajad, who holds very litle power in that country, I thought it was alreadly widly proven and reported that those "off the map" quotes that were so highly publicized were abhorrant translations. Many outspoken anti-Iranian scholars of Persian came out to defend him against the comments that were attributed to him.

At least this as far as I have seen.

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The open opposition I'm referring to is a bit more than that, I don't believe the Iranians are training insurgents in Iraq, if they are, good for them. I'm referring to attacks on US ships, that have aparently been linked to them, and weapons going into Iraq that are too advanced to be made by simple insurgents.
The rhetoric against Iran is justified, it is a country ruled by religious zealots. I have christian born Iranian friends who were chased out in the revolution, their families were murdered in the night, by extremists who took over the country in the name if islam. Any country or government that will openly kill you because of your religion deserves such scrutiny.

Every word in the English language has more than one meaning, I'm sure Persian is similar, the translation you hear is what the translator wants you to hear, some things that may sound harsh to us are common phrases in other countries, and should not be taken as offensive, but in a global political arena it is the responsibility of the politician speaking to make sure he isn't declaring war, or promoting genocide. many political lessons have been learned the hard way because a simple hand gesture was mistranslated...
The one truth we can not mis translate or ignore are what a country teaches it's children, and under Iranian law if you denounce islam, or have a bible you are put to death. How far is that from death to all infidels?

For that matter, if a woman is raped, she can be put to death for it...

The United States may not be perfect, far from it, but comparing our statements to Iran is just wrong. The US is one of the biggest supporters of human rights in the world, we do more to keep the peace than any other nation. If we adopted the policies of the nations we had disagreements with, there would be no planet to worry about right now.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Wild tim, whatever happened to those empires?

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They had too much fun, partied too much because they were so overwhelmingly successful, and colapsed in on themselves when the hang over got too bad... It also had something to do with lead poisoning...:D

No whoohoo scares me at all. I'm not one to run around like a chicken with it's head choped off..........the sky is falling, the sky is falling.......

I firmly believe that God Almighty is in control and with that in mind. the rest will tqke of it's self. And yes, I'm am an advocate on voting.

So lighten up people

LIMIT

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Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

The open opposition I'm referring to is a bit more than that, I don't believe the Iranians are training insurgents in Iraq, if they are, good for them. I'm referring to attacks on US ships, that have aparently been linked to them,

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I haven't heard about these attacks, I'd appreciate more information on them.

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Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

and weapons going into Iraq that are too advanced to be made by simple insurgents.

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Which as I said previously has been denied by the Iraq government and our own government has cancelled every (though it was the only one) press conference to display these iranian made weapons because they discovered they were't Iranian made.

The rhetoric against Iran is justified, it is a country ruled by religious zealots. I have christian born Iranian friends who were chased out in the revolution, their families were murdered in the night, by extremists who took over the country in the name if islam. Any country or government that will openly kill you because of your religion deserves such scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

Every word in the English language has more than one meaning, I'm sure Persian is similar, the translation you hear is what the translator wants you to hear, some things that may sound harsh to us are common phrases in other countries, and should not be taken as offensive, but in a global political arena it is the responsibility of the politician speaking to make sure he isn't declaring war, or promoting genocide. many political lessons have been learned the hard way because a simple hand gesture was mistranslated...

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I agree, but when something is translated to say "wipe off the map" when there isn't even a persian equivelent seems like we're stuffing words into someone's mouth.

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Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

The one truth we can not mis translate or ignore are what a country teaches it's children, and under Iranian law if you denounce islam, or have a bible you are put to death. How far is that from death to all infidels?

For that matter, if a woman is raped, she can be put to death for it...

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And that's bad, but we're one of the few countries that allow freedom of religion, while it's the best solution very few other countries have that as a principle of low. It's a tad irrational to hold them accountable for holding to islamic law without denouncing russia for adhering to roman catholic law is it not?

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Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

The United States may not be perfect, far from it, but comparing our statements to Iran is just wrong. The US is one of the biggest supporters of human rights in the world, we do more to keep the peace than any other nation. If we adopted the policies of the nations we had disagreements with, there would be no planet to worry about right now.

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We are one of the greatest supporters of human rights in the world, as for keeping peace that's debatable. I'd agree if we allowed our embassies to assist foreign citizens to come here under political asylum, but as it is we're just trying to force everybody to be like us.

Nobody has said we should adopt the policies of other countries, but we as the greatest country should lead the way and prove that equality is the best and easiest system to provide for the people under the government. There is no better way to prove that democracy doesn't work than by bringing it to other people at the end of a gun.

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Originally Posted by Nickelking

And that's bad, but we're one of the few countries that allow freedom of religion, while it's the best solution very few other countries have that as a principle of low. It's a tad irrational to hold them accountable for holding to islamic law without denouncing russia for adhering to roman catholic law is it not?

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Iran doesn't tolerate conversion to Christianity to the point that punishment is always and every time immediate execution. What does Russia's adherence to Roman Catholic "law" have to do with that? Is there a Russian Inquisition?