Sad, sad sign of the times...

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Nono absolutely not.
I just used wanted to make clear that ANY religion that aquires political power goes evil.

Currently, there is a big problem with extremist Islam, but the same problem existed with Christianity.
Eventually the Christians lost political power and the problems gradually went away.
I hope the same happens with Islam.
I wanted to underline that the solution does not have to include extermination / nukings / war of the offending parties.

Perhaps I could have explained it a bit more extensive the first time around.
My bad.

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I agree with you Bruno, but the Christian countries developed and nurtured institutions that allowed secular goverment and continue to check religious intrusion into government. The islamic countries seem to be sliding backwards in this respect. I don't know that they have the cultural models/heritage to work from

Jordan

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Nono absolutely not.
I just used wanted to make clear that ANY religion that aquires political power goes evil.

Currently, there is a big problem with extremist Islam, but the same problem existed with Christianity.
Eventually the Christians lost political power and the problems gradually went away.

I hope the same happens with Islam.
I wanted to underline that the solution does not have to include extermination / nukings / war of the offending parties.

Perhaps I could have explained it a bit more extensive the first time around.
My bad.

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Yep -- religions have to change and evolve a little bit --- maybe Islam needs the equivalent of an eccumenical council ----------- and even though I agree that Christianity has had its version of Jihad , I don't think it is built into the religion ---maybe if you are radical enough, a Christian can interpret Evangelism as a sort of JIhad but this would be stretching it. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong), that the notion of Jihad is an abstract concept, but a rather specific ordained concept within the Islamic religion.

Justin

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

Yep -- religions have to change and evolve a little bit --- maybe Islam needs the equivalent of an eccumenical council ----------- and even though I agree that Christianity has had its version of Jihad , I don't think it is built into the religion ---maybe if you are radical enough, a Christian can interpret Evangelism as a sort of JIhad but this would be stretching it. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong), that the notion of Jihad is an abstract concept, but a rather specific ordained concept within the Islamic religion.

Justin

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That is as I understand it!

Oh, and Bruno, we are not losing the war in Iraq!

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Originally Posted by Bruno

If it hadn't been for France, you'd still be ruled by Her Majesty. :p

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Hear Hear!!!

And if it wasn't for the Dutch, ......... we, .............. well, ...........

our chocolate wouldn't be as good.

Matt

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Originally Posted by mhailey

Hear Hear!!!

And if it wasn't for the Dutch, ......... we, .............. well, ...........

our chocolate wouldn't be as good.

Matt

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I've always appreciated the French for what they did ---- the Statue of Liberty was a rather nice little item too. Vive la France (but Belgium. what's it good far ;))

Justin

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

I've always appreciated the French for what they did ---- the Statue of Liberty was a rather nice little item too. Vive la France (but Belgium. what's it good far ;))

Justin

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Hey hey... Watch it Justin! They make some of the best beer the world has known, and besides that its got a top rate razor restorer who goes by the name Lord Salvager! Can't say much for his world views though!;)

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

I've always appreciated the French for what they did ---- the Statue of Liberty was a rather nice little item too. Vive la France (but Belgium. what's it good far ;))

Justin

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See what you've gone and done now? Shame on you.

You must immediately turn in all your coticules! :eek:

I would like to point out that right after the Revolution, we had a little Navy Spat of a war with France concerning trade on the Seas. Most seem to forget this. Also that our fight for a home ruled country came at the same time the Brits were facing other wars around their Empire.

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Originally Posted by valhson

I would like to point out that right after the Revolution, we had a little Navy Spat of a war with France concerning trade on the Seas. Most seem to forget this. Also that our fight for a home ruled country came at the same time the Brits were facing other wars around their Empire.

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A little disheartening guerrilla warfare goes a long way also (we know this all too well).
Maybe the British members here can give their perspective on why the Brits lost that war?

Justin

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

...Jihad , I don't think it is built into the religion ---maybe if you are radical enough, a Christian can interpret Evangelism as a sort of JIhad but this would be stretching it. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong), that the notion of Jihad is an abstract concept, but a rather specific ordained concept within the Islamic religion.

Justin

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Actually it is a rather abstract concept, a myth that has been perpetuated by the media. Or it could be chalked up to a translation error. In the q'uran aggressive war and compulsory conversion are not allowed. It's tough to define the true meaning of jihad, it's more of an inner strength or a dedication to improving oneself in the face of adversity.