Thread: Sad, sad sign of the times...

I've never personally been offended by the burning of the flag. According to the US legal code the prefered method of disposing of a flag is by burning.

Not that very many places follow the flag codes.

Originally Posted by trewornan

Well obviously I'm a product of my times and can't answer for previous generations but you're probably right, attitudes were very different in 1908 or 1808. Still I think it's a sign of social advance rather than anything else.

I guess my point is I think it might be a sign of position in the world --- When the Brits were THE power, they protected that image more then maybe the present generations do ---. If and when the U.S. is no longer the powerhouse that it is, then we probably won't show such signs of national pride either. I'm just thinking here.

From my perspective, it is difficult to imagine someone not being offended by burning a national flag or any other national symbol. I personally wouldn't burn another nation's flag let alone my own ---- if this is something that can be labeled as "American", then I am a little prouder for knowing it.

Justin

Originally Posted by Nickelking

I've never personally been offended by the burning of the flag. According to the US legal code the prefered method of disposing of a flag is by burning.

Not that very many places follow the flag codes.

It's not the action that is offensive, it's the intent. Burning a flag for disposal in some honorary procedure (maybe akin to a Viking funeral pyre) is not offensive -- but burning as a sign of destroying the nation in effigy is a different story.

Justin

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

when the U.S. is no longer the powerhouse that it is

I managed to resist for a while but now I can't help saying something I know will be contentious:

I've got to point out that for all the US's vaunted superpower status, the military has managed to get their ass kicked with monotonous regularity in the last 50 years or so.

Begin flamefest . . .

Just to clear something up, burning the
flag is the proper way to dispose of it, but
along with that goes an honorable ceremony
generally done by a Legion Post or other
organization. Going into your backyard or fireplace
to burn a flag to dispose of it would not be the
way to do it.

John

Originally Posted by trewornan

I managed to resist for a while but now I can't help saying something I know will be contentious:

I've got to point out that for all the US's vaunted superpower status, the military has managed to get their ass kicked with monotonous regularity in the last 50 years or so.

Begin flamefest . . .

Well I was trying to have a nice discussion without things turning this way --- I was hoping you could add something constructive to what I was saying ---- if not then so be it. I'm not in the mood for starting a flame fest

Justin

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

I guess my point is I think it might be a sign of position in the world --- When the Brits were THE power, they protected that image more then maybe the present generations do ---. If and when the U.S. is no longer the powerhouse that it is, then we probably won't show such signs of national pride either. I'm just thinking here.

From my perspective, it is difficult to imagine someone not being offended by burning a national flag or any other national symbol. I personally wouldn't burn another nation's flag let alone my own ---- if this something that can be labeled as "American", then I am a little prouder for knowing it.

Justin

Besides this, there is a certain amount of respect that you show your country, your President or Queen if you will and the soldiers that protect not because they themselves are due respect but for what they stand for even if they do fall short of the mark! for the original ideals and hopes of our forefathers which we should all be working towards instead of throwing a public hissyfit as these code pink people are doing!

Trewornan, much of what you said I agree with but in one area I heartily disagree as I do not believe that apathy and indifference are a sign of advance, instead I view it as a sign of decay!

Originally Posted by JMS

Besides this, there is a certain amount of respect that you show your country,

I tend to agree with this I just don't think it needs to be tied up too much with what are (ultimately) merely symbols.

Originally Posted by JMS

your President or Queen if you will

Personally I have very little time for the Queen, but I am aware that is not typical for someone of my nationality.

Originally Posted by JMS

and the soldiers that protect not because they themselves are due respect but for what they stand for even if they do fall short of the mark!

We are none of us perfect - soldiers do overstep the mark sometimes and should be punished when they do, but that doesn't mean the vast majority don't deserve respect.

Originally Posted by JMS

instead of throwing a public hissyfit as these code pink people are doing!

I don't know much about codepink but from what little I do know they seem fairly rediculous.

Originally Posted by JMS

I do not believe that apathy and indifference are a sign of advance, instead I view it as a sign of decay!

Well you might view it as apathy and indifference but I view it as maturity and sophistication. It's a difficult point though - how would you distinguish between the two?

Originally Posted by trewornan

I managed to resist for a while but now I can't help saying something I know will be contentious:

I've got to point out that for all the US's vaunted superpower status, the military has managed to get their ass kicked with monotonous regularity in the last 50 years or so.

Begin flamefest . . .

If you are referring to Viet Nam, you must be confusing the military with the politicians (the very same mistake CODEPINK made). The kill ratios were heavily weighted in the United States favor, wasn't even close. We won the vast majority of the battles, the politicians lost that war. I would agree that the politicians got their "asses kicked", not the military by any means or measure. For verification, check the kill ratios in the Iraqi dust-ups.

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

It's not the action that is offensive, it's the intent. Burning a flag for disposal in some honorary procedure (maybe akin to a Viking funeral pyre) is not offensive -- but burning as a sign of destroying the nation in effigy is a different story.

Justin

I have nearly 3 consecutive combat tours under my belt and would vigorously defend your right to burn any flag you wish. You bring the flag, I'll bring the marshmallows. (Don't forget to bring the Guinness Extra Stout, please.) Likewise you may burn little effigies of me if you wish; those and the flag are both merely symbols.

Express you displeasure using any symbol you wish, I see it as your Constitutional right. At the same time, if I see you flying a national flag over the U.S. flag on U.S. soil, we are going to have a fight. See the difference?

Originally Posted by Sticky

I have nearly 3 consecutive combat tours under my belt and would vigorously defend your right to burn any flag you wish. You bring the flag, I'll bring the marshmallows. (Don't forget to bring the Guinness Extra Stout, please.) Likewise you may burn little effigies of me if you wish; those and the flag are both merely symbols.

Express you displeasure using any symbol you wish, I see it as your Constitutional right.

I wasn't questioning it as a constitutional right -- and no one is in a better position than you to judge this --- but it does bother me and I find it hard to believe that it couldn't bother someone. It does bother me as would a burning picture of my mother, a burning Bible, a burning Buddhist temple, a burning Union Jack ,etc. Symbols I suppose ---

Justin