Thread: Sad, sad sign of the times...

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

Yep -- religions have to change and evolve a little bit --- maybe Islam needs the equivalent of an eccumenical council ----------- and even though I agree that Christianity has had its version of Jihad , I don't think it is built into the religion ---maybe if you are radical enough, a Christian can interpret Evangelism as a sort of JIhad but this would be stretching it. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong), that the notion of Jihad is an abstract concept, but a rather specific ordained concept within the Islamic religion.

Justin

That is as I understand it!

Oh, and Bruno, we are not losing the war in Iraq!

Originally Posted by JMS

That is as I understand it!

Oh, and Bruno, we are not losing the war in Iraq!

Really? How long has it been since we saw the "Mission Accomplished" banner?

Did you know the so-called War on Terror has now been going on longer than World War II (The presence of troops in Iraq has been just under 6 years....) with only 2 countries occupied....hardly a glowing example of military success (because the politicians have ignored the military leadership's recommendations)

On a slightly related note, I noticed a member here lambasted Clinton and Feinstein for decrying the war...(neither of them really thrill me as leaders, BTW), but failed to mention all the Republicans who are against the war (Kissinger, Brownback, Warner, Murkowski, Hegel, Coleman, Smith, Voinovich, Collins, Specter, Graham, Sununu, Baily-Hutchison, Snowe). Hillary-bashing is getting old...mainly due to the fact that she is just like most other politicians.

I like the quote from Kissinger: “90% of all politicians give the other 10% a bad name”

Originally Posted by WireBeard

Really? How long has it been since we saw the "Mission Accomplished" banner?

Did you know the so-called War on Terror has now been going on longer than World War II (The presence of troops in Iraq has been just under 6 years....) with only 2 countries occupied....hardly a glowing example of military success (because the politicians have ignored the military leadership's recommendations)

On a slightly related note, I noticed a member here lambasted Clinton and Feinstein for decrying the war...(neither of them really thrill me as leaders, BTW), but failed to mention all the Republicans who are against the war (Kissinger, Brownback, Warner, Murkowski, Hegel, Coleman, Smith, Voinovich, Collins, Specter, Graham, Sununu, Baily-Hutchison, Snowe). Hillary-bashing is getting old...mainly due to the fact that she is just like most other politicians.

I like the quote from Kissinger: “90% of all politicians give the other 10% a bad name”

We are still in Germany aren't we!

Although I have my issues with Bush and the Republican party, Bush bashing and conservative bashing is getting mighty old to Sir!

Originally Posted by JMS

We are still in Germany aren't we!

Although I have my issues with Bush and the Republican party, Bush bashing and conservative bashing is getting mighty old to Sir!

I guess I should have been more clear that I know we are not at war with Germany but the end of WWII didn't immediately halt the hostilities and we remained in several countries many years after the war!

Originally Posted by JMS

We are still in Germany aren't we!

Although I have my issues with Bush and the Republican party, Bush bashing and conservative bashing is getting mighty old to Sir!

Damn Mark I can't read this ---- is this is stealth blue or something ---- maybe a little punching of the bold button would help.

Justin

Originally Posted by JMS

We are still in Germany aren't we!

not for the same reason though.

back to the islamic radicals, i would have to disagree with the person saying there's a problem with that religion and it's going worse. i agree with bruno and wirebeard (big surprise here) that when given political power every religion seem to have done pretty badly. and i don't see reasons for claiming some special mechanisms that ensured the transition in christianity from genocidal to fairly civilized.

My country was invaded in 14th century by the otoman turks (a tiny tribe at that time, which just used the local conflicts to gain full dominance over large region and popluation and become the otoman empire). Gaining independence again took about 500 years and while there were mass conversions into islam, the fact is most invaded countries survived centuries under islamic rule.

Perhaps Islam starting 600 years after Christianity is about 600 years behind, but that doesn't mean they have to be nuked. I have a lot of muslim friends and even though I've never been in a muslim country I have several friends (some americans) that have traveled in such or in muslim regions and every one of them has said that these were the most hospitable and nice people they have ever met.

And it's quite hard for the people of Saudi Arabia to overthrow their government if US keeps supporting it the way it does.

Finally to me the war on terror is just an empty concept. You can't eliminate the terrorists by fighting them - anybody who cares to read history can tell you that. Instead societies just learn to live with it and as times goes hope that the conflict will get diffused (usually it takes generations).

Originally Posted by gugi

not for the same reason though.

back to the islamic radicals, i would have to disagree with the person saying there's a problem with that religion and it's going worse. i agree with bruno and wirebeard (big surprise here) that when given political power every religion seem to have done pretty badly. and i don't see reasons for claiming some special mechanisms that ensured the transition in christianity from genocidal to fairly civilized.

[/color]My country was invaded in 14th century by the otoman turks (a tiny tribe at that time, which just used the local conflicts to gain full dominance over large region and popluation and become the otoman empire). Gaining independence again took about 500 years and while there were mass conversions into islam, the fact is most invaded countries survived centuries under islamic rule.

Perhaps Islam starting 600 years after Christianity is about 600 years behind, but that doesn't mean they have to be nuked. I have a lot of muslim friends and even though I've never been in a muslim country I have several friends (some americans) that have traveled in such or in muslim regions and every one of them has said that these were the most hospitable and nice people they have ever met.

And it's quite hard for the people of Saudi Arabia to overthrow their government if US keeps supporting it the way it does.

Finally to me the war on terror is just an empty concept. You can't eliminate the terrorists by fighting them - anybody who cares to read history can tell you that. Instead societies just learn to live with it and as times goes hope that the conflict will get diffused (usually it takes generations).

Most Americans don't realize that the Saudis are despised in moderate Islamic countries...and their adherence to their precious laws seems to stop at the border (witness drunken Saudi Princes while in the US or Europe). The US keeps the royal family in power to ensure the flow oil....period. Thus the US overlooks all the wrongdoing by the Saudis. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Middle East when the oil dries up or when someone comes up with a viable alternative fuel....(c'mon America...we put a man on the moon...we can't come up with an alternative fuel...oh, wait...Halliburton has how many politicians in their pockets?)

Originally Posted by JMS

We are still in Germany aren't we!

Although I have my issues with Bush and the Republican party, Bush bashing and conservative bashing is getting mighty old to Sir!

Who was bashing Bush or the Republicans? Just listing some facts. There are very few politicians for whom I have any respect...mainly because they do very little to earn it.

There is so little difference between the two parties anymore that it is almost pointless to have debates. Most Americans have no idea about their party's platforms (or even know what a "party platform" is...). There are no great reformers and very few actual leaders who can lead by example as opposed to leading through fear or scape-goating...it always easier to tell people who to blame for their problems than to come up with a solution.

When an election gets a better turn out than American Idol, then there may be hope...until then, the American public gets what it deserves for public officials...

(We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress - Desperate Housewives from Orange County having Sex in the City during an Extreme Makeover for American Idol's Big Brother Survivor.....)

Originally Posted by WireBeard

Who was bashing Bush or the Republicans? Just listing some facts. There are very few politicians for whom I have any respect...mainly because they do very little to earn it.

There is so little difference between the two parties anymore that it is almost pointless to have debates. Most Americans have no idea about their party's platforms (or even know what a "party platform" is...). There are no great reformers and very few actual leaders who can lead by example as opposed to leading through fear or scape-goating...it always easier to tell people who to blame for their problems than to come up with a solution.

When an election gets a better turn out than American Idol, then there may be hope...until then, the American public gets what it deserves for public officials...

(We now return you to your regular programming, already in progress - Desperate Housewives from Orange County having Sex in the City during an Extreme Makeover for American Idol's Big Brother Survivor.....)

You weren't bashing Bush or the republicans this time, but since you were making an open complaint about Hillary bashing I thought I would take a moment to highlight your inconsistency!
I promise I won't go for such an easy opening in the future!

Originally Posted by JMS

You weren't bashing Bush or the republicans this time, but since you were making an open complaint about Hillary bashing I thought I would take a moment to highlight your inconsistency!
I promise I won't go for such an easy opening in the future!

Actually, complaining about any politician is like complaining that feces smell..."Well, duh!" (and the comparison doesn't stop with the smell.....)