Thread: Telecom Immunity

DANGER: POLITICAL CONTENT

I understand this may upset a few folks. I'm not much into politics. I work for a telecom company. I hate seeing our Constitutional rights raided and eroded under the fear-driven "War on Terror". While it can be said there hasn't been another attack on American soil since 9/11, it has yet to be proven that any information obtained by agencies through illegal means prevented it.

I was appalled when I read the statements and engineering documents made public by Mark Klein, now a former AT&T employee. Klein detailed a secret room at an AT&T Central Office (CO) in California where data was being passed wholesale to the NSA. All major backbone Internet links were passed through fiber-optic splitters, with one lead headed straight for Uncle Sam.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6//att_klein_wired.pdf

This revelation caused some public outcry, and a few lawsuits.

This week, the US Senate passed a new FISA bill which granted telecom companies (AT&T, Verizon, etc.) retroactive immunity for handing over information to the government without a court order. This bill also expands the government's ability to spy on its own citizens with no judicial oversight whatsoever.

There is currently a FISA bill in the US House which does not grant telco immunity, which President Bush says he will veto.


Folks, I encourage you to contact your Representative in Congress and urge them not to allow telco immunity. Wholesale violation of your 4th amendment rights should not be permitted. The EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) has a website setup to assist you in generating e-mail to your Representative regarding this measure.

https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy...rAction&id=363


Oh, and by the way, those fancy spy satellites we have... they can now be used by law enforcement agencies against citizens if they obtain a warrant:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...ifwNgD8UP4GG03

Originally Posted by sensei_kyle

While it can be said there hasn't been another attack on American soil since 9/11, it has yet to be proven that any information obtained by agencies through illegal means prevented it.

There is a joke from a Belgian comedian.
He is throwing powder on the street while he walks.
A cop ask him what he is doing, and he explains that it is to keep away the elephants.
The cop says 'But there are no elephants!'
He says 'Good powder eh'

I think this pretty much sums up my opinion about the current terrorist scare tactics, and all the abuse of power that comes with it.

I've written a couple of emails about this to my represantative over the last few months about this.

Sadly he and I rarely agree, but we do get into some interesting discussions... ok, it's probably his staffers, but the last time I saw him he definately already knew my name.

Already have...

Personally as far as the telecom immunity thing goes. I do think the companies deserve some protection, at least for past actions, because they are being bullied by the government. And now they are getting their asses sued off because of it.

What we should be reacting to is what the government is doing. Not just the wiretapping but also the way they have gone about it. To me the style of execution is more tyrannical in this instance than the goal.

I guess the electronic age equalivlent of listening to a conversation in a restaurant or outside a window is less scary than the thought of the honest proprietor being beat up in order to make it happen.

Originally Posted by Nickelking

I've written a couple of emails about this to my represantative over the last few months about this.

Sadly he and I rarely agree, but we do get into some interesting discussions... ok, it's probably his staffers, but the last time I saw him he definately already knew my name.

How many times do you have to mail them before they get to know who you are?

I've sent countless letters and e-mails and never even once gotten a response.

At this point, what the government is doing does not bother me. I'd rather law enforcement have the ability to follow up on a threat quickly. I have enough trust in our institutions (courts, media, other) to feel comfortable. Having lived in the Washington area for 20 years, I was acquainted with a number of people who do this or related kind of work and, trust me; they're not interested in spying on average Americans. Just my take, FWIW.

Jordan

Don't forget as our system was originally written there were to be NO warrants. A warrant is guaranteed immunity from re-dress. We as citizens were to be able to challenge any police action against us in court and at that time the police would have to prove to a jury that their actions were sensible and had merit. Under the system they way it is supposed to be the government should be allowed to act as it feels it has to as fast as it wants to but then it later needs to justify that action to the citizenry. The way all the warrant systems we have today work is that they grant immunity to the government for its actions in advance by the word of a few judges even if those actions should later prove to have been egregious. The warrant system also as we know slows the process of law enforcement to a crawl.

This is an area where we and the administrative branch have been stripped of rights and powers. We should have re-dress or satisfaction from the courts for the governments actions and the administrators should have the freedom to act instantly if they feel justified in doing so. Unfortunately the courts have managed to slant power to themselves on this issue and doubly hurt the people in the process.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

How many times do you have to mail them before they get to know who you are?

I've sent countless letters and e-mails and never even once gotten a response.

Well, I also go to a lot of the events organized by him and stop by the office every so often as well.

I think the 4th amendment says you are protected from searches and seizures of your "person, house, papers, and effects".

Not electronic communications you pay someone else to transmit for you. When I send a secure communication I have to pay a lot more for it then a cell phone bill.

If you expect your communications to be "secure" than you are being very unrealistic. I'm not saying your wrong, just unrealistic. I think gravity is unfair too, but I don't complain about it, I work around it.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

How many times do you have to mail them before they get to know who you are?

I've sent countless letters and e-mails and never even once gotten a response.

I contact my senators and reps occasionally... the all usually answer (several have a checkbox on the form asking if you want a personal answer)... try using [senators] and [reps]