Thread: God and science

I might be misstaken here, but if I remember it correctly, science only claims truth untill proven otherwise.

In other words, doesn't science only give the most likely explanation?...but never surety?

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

I might be misstaken here, but if I remember it correctly, science only claims truth untill proven otherwise.

In other words, doesn't science only give the most likely explanation?...but never surety?

I think there is probably some division of opinion on this but certainly I agree with your assessment. Some things science can explain with a VERY high degree of probability but absolute surety - I don't think so.

I've read some things here and there. And I was almost sure that that was the case. Hence I never use the words "prove", "proven", "proof" and "Fac" very lightly. I alwasy get the idea that some people do however.

LX, I agree. But the word proof I mean:

A scientific demonstration is a scientific experiment carried out for the purposes of demonstrating scientific principles, rather than for hypothesis testing or knowledge gathering (although they may originally have been carried out for these purposes).

That's all. Just the facts.

The word Science covers lots of ground. Just like Faith.

But the two are still separate.

Actually I've found both to be quite similar. But that's personal preference.

Let me explain why though. (And I don't need people to agree on this. It's just how I feel, that's all)

The word faith is often defined as something that one has great trust in. "I have faith in my car engine" meaning I use it without fear that it'll easily die.

Also faith implies action.

Having faith in said car engine means USING said car engine because I'm not affraid that my normal use will kill it.

The same goes for both science AND religion (at least in my case).

I have faith in scientific principles like gravity, electricity etc. Hence I use said principles even though I don't understand them fully (just like I don't know CRAP about car engines). Yet eventhough I don't understand them I still use them.

My religion is something that I (at times) don't fully understand either. Yet I try to live by it's principles having trust that they'll provide me with the blessings that I expect.

So although to some Faith and Science are different things...I think both Faith (or Religion for a better word) and Science both require quite a lot of faith.

As for hypothosis testing, even after being tested they're still hypothosis.....even though the probability of them being correct is very high, if someone finds a way to disprove them, they should be thrown out the window. Just like I do with religious beliefs that don't add up.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Actually I've found both to be quite similar. But that's personal preference.

Let me explain why though. (And I don't need people to agree on this. It's just how I feel, that's all)

The word faith is often defined as something that one has great trust in. "I have faith in my car engine" meaning I use it without fear that it'll easily die.

Also faith implies action.

Having faith in said car engine means USING said car engine because I'm not affraid that my normal use will kill it.

The same goes for both science AND religion (at least in my case).

I have faith in scientific principles like gravity, electricity etc. Hence I use said principles even though I don't understand them fully (just like I don't know CRAP about car engines). Yet eventhough I don't understand them I still use them.

My religion is something that I (at times) don't fully understand either. Yet I try to live by it's principles having trust that they'll provide me with the blessings that I expect.

So although to some Faith and Science are different things...I think both Faith (or Religion for a better word) and Science both require quite a lot of faith.

As for hypothosis testing, even after being tested they're still hypothosis.....even though the probability of them being correct is very high, if someone finds a way to disprove them, they should be thrown out the window. Just like I do with religious beliefs that don't add up.

Right, my point exactly!

You have made a choice, as do most who want to reconcile science and religion.

This is the slippery slope that is language and context.

I appreciate your ability for clear communication LX, regardless.

And, I appreciate your viewpoints.

Cheers,

Randy

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

The word faith is often defined as something that one has great trust in. "I have faith in my car engine" meaning I use it without fear that it'll easily die.

Also faith implies action.

Having faith in said car engine means USING said car engine because I'm not affraid that my normal use will kill it.

The same goes for both science AND religion (at least in my case)

This is a confusion of two quite different meanings of the word faith.

Religious faith is belief without evidence - there is no evidence of a god and so faith in a god is belief without evidence (or arguably, despite the evidence).

This is very different from, for example, faith that my car engine will work - my car engine has worked thousands of times, I know something about the principles on which it operates, I know that the conditions likely to stop it working are not extant (it's not underwater for example) so my faith in it is based on a great deal of evidence.

Furthermore when I say I have faith in my car engine - that's actually only probabilistic faith, I wouldn't really be all that shocked if I got in my car one morning and found the battery flat or I was out of fuel, in fact this has happened before, I also know (from other people) that there are many other ways in which a car engine may fail. So in reality I EXPECT it to fail again at some point (although I don't know when) it's a very different thing from blind faith.

"Also faith implies action", as far as I can see that's a complete non-sequitur . . . also fish implies bicycle.

Originally Posted by trewornan

This is a confusion of two quite different meanings of the word faith.

This is what I was thinking. Perhaps we should say 'dogma' and 'verification', something like that.

X

Originally Posted by trewornan

This is a confusion of two quite different meanings of the word faith.

Religious faith is belief without evidence - there is no evidence of a god and so faith in a god is belief without evidence (or arguably, despite the evidence).

This is very different from, for example, faith that my car engine will work - my car engine has worked thousands of times, I know something about the principles on which it operates, I know that the conditions likely to stop it working are not extant (it's not underwater for example) so my faith in it is based on a great deal of evidence.

Furthermore when I say I have faith in my car engine - that's actually only probabilistic faith, I wouldn't really be all that shocked if I got in my car one morning and found the battery flat or I was out of fuel, in fact this has happened before, I also know (from other people) that there are many other ways in which a car engine may fail. So in reality I EXPECT it to fail again at some point (although I don't know when) it's a very different thing from blind faith.

"Also faith implies action", as far as I can see that's a complete non-sequitur . . . also fish implies bicycle.

Actually...My faith is based on trust as well. I have a very personal relationship with my God and he's not let me down so far. So, my religious faith is not based on something without evidence at all. Sure, it's not evidence that I can pull out and show to someone else. But it's evidence to me, VERY real to me. So I very much resent the idea that just because I see a higher hand in my life, that means that I'm devoid of reason and/or logic. (Which seems to be the main argument that people who "only believe in science" throw at me.)

No, you're just being spitefull now.

The fact that you have faith in something means that you intend to use it. Thus, faith implies action.

Originally Posted by trewornan

This is a confusion of two quite different meanings of the word faith.

Actually, there's a confusion as to the words BELIEF and the word FAITH.

You guys are mixing up religious belief with the word faith. Which are completely different things.