Thread: TIPS ON PUMPING GAS

Most of this is bogus, taking it one item at a time:

1) Buried tanks do not change temperature significantly during the day. Those of you with basements should realize this based on the fact that in the summer your basement remains cool even in the hottest part of the day. In fact, the temperature only a few feet below the surface doesn't really change significantly from winter to summer.

2) Gasoline pumps are positive displacement pumps that meter a fixed amount of liquid for each stroke of the pump. The pumping rate is determined by how many strokes the pump completes per minute. The amount of vapors produced by the pump is essentially zero at all speeds.

3)There is very little air in the vapor space in your tank, it is almost entirely occupied by gasoline vapors. These vapors are in equilibrium with the liquid remaining in the tank. As long as there is any liquid in the tank, the amount of the gasoline you pump that turns into vapor will be determined entirely by the temperature. The tank and its contents will be at ambient temperature before you start pumping. The gasoline from the underground storage tanks will be at about 50 degrees F. If this is cooler than ambient temperature, the net effect will be to condense some of the gasoline vapors in the tank. If it is warmer than ambient temperature, some of the gasoline will evaporate. The volume of liquid in the tank, as long as it is not zero, will have no effect.

4) is good information

The rest of this is so full of errors that it is hardly worth discussing, but just in case you don't know:

There was never in rationing in the 80s, there were some attempts by the government to allocate distribution, and there were many attempts to regulate when you could buy gasoline, but there were never any limits placed on how much you could buy, at least not by the government. Like censorship, rationing can only be done by a government.

Who ever put together these lists have no idea of how the oil industry is structured.

BP and Philipps are not combined, that should be ConocoPhillips, but Amoco and Arco are now part of BP.

In any event, the gas you buy at your local Shell, Conoco, Exxon, BP etc. May or may not have come from a a refinery owned by the company with the same name, and this refinery may or may not have processed oil produced by these companies in any of the locations mentioned. The truth is, oil companies, refiners and retailers trade crude oil and gasoline to minimize transportation costs. Citgo refineries do not process only crude oil from Venezuala, and Citgo stations do not sell only gasoline refined in Citgo refineries. I have seen Shell trucks loading gasoline at Conoco refineries and Exxon trucks loading gasoline at independent refineries.

Further, most of these retail outlets are not even owned by the companies whose brands they display. Instead they are independent businesses who have licensed the brand.



I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in
California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line
of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to
get more of your money's worth for every gallon..

Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose , CA we deliver
about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day is
diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades.
We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons.


Only buy or *fill up your car or truck in the early morning* when the ground
temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their
storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense
the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the
afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the
petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the
gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays
an important role.

A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the
service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast
mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3)stages: low,
middle, and high. In slow mode you should be *pumping on low speed*, hereby
minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at
the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some
other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being
sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less
worth for your money.

One of the most important tips is to *fill up when your gas tank is HALF
FULL* or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your
tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster
than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof.
This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so t
minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, ever
truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is
actually the exact amount.

Another reminder, *if there is a gasoline truck pumping* into the storage
tanks when you stop to buy gas, *DO NOT fill up*--most likely the gasoline
is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up
some f the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will help
you get the most value for your money.

DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS!

WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON

Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It might
even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should
return the favor.

An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS.

Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the
coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import
their oil from the Saudis.

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the
tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family,
and my friends.

I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are
the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern
oil.

These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell........................... 205,742,000 barrels

Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels

Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels

Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels

Amoco...........................62,231,000 barrels

Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If you
do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (oil is
now $90 - $100 a barrel

Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:

Sunoco..................0 barrels

Conoco..................0 barrels

Sinclair.................0 barrels

B P/Phillips............0 barrels

Hess.......................0 barrels

ARC0....................0 barrels

If you go to Sunoco.com , you will get a list of the
station locations near you.

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each
is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are
importing.

Interesting info. Thanks.

Jordan

I'm not the expert, and I just cut and pasted the story, so don't quote me on it, but I do have to contest a couple of things here.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

Most of this is bogus, taking it one item at a time:

1) Buried tanks do not change temperature significantly during the day. Those of you with basements should realize this based on the fact that in the summer your basement remains cool even in the hottest part of the day. In fact, the temperature only a few feet below the surface doesn't really change significantly from winter to summer. I used to work at a gas station, and The slight change in temperature was evident to us. We could watch people overflow their gas tanks in the summer because they topped it off, and as the gas warmed up it would expand significantly.
In Hotter sunny climates, and if the tank isn't vburied very deep, I could see this being legit.

2) Gasoline pumps are positive displacement pumps that meter a fixed amount of liquid for each stroke of the pump. The pumping rate is determined by how many strokes the pump completes per minute. The amount of vapors produced by the pump is essentially zero at all speeds. I believe the author means the agitation as it is exiting the nozzle if the gas splashes a great deal you could potentially lose a couple cents worth of gas...

3)There is very little air in the vapor space in your tank, it is almost entirely occupied by gasoline vapors. These vapors are in equilibrium with the liquid remaining in the tank. As long as there is any liquid in the tank, the amount of the gasoline you pump that turns into vapor will be determined entirely by the temperature. The tank and its contents will be at ambient temperature before you start pumping. The gasoline from the underground storage tanks will be at about 50 degrees F. If this is cooler than ambient temperature, the net effect will be to condense some of the gasoline vapors in the tank. If it is warmer than ambient temperature, some of the gasoline will evaporate. The volume of liquid in the tank, as long as it is not zero, will have no effect.
I can't argue here, perhaps if the tank wasn't a modern sealed tank, this argument would have been valid.

4) is good information

The rest of this is so full of errors that it is hardly worth discussing, but just in case you don't know:

There was never in rationing in the 80s, there were some attempts by the government to allocate distribution, and there were many attempts to regulate when you could buy gasoline, but there were never any limits placed on how much you could buy, at least not by the government. Like censorship, rationing can only be done by a government.

Who ever put together these lists have no idea of how the oil industry is structured.

BP and Philipps are not combined, that should be ConocoPhillips, but Amoco and Arco are now part of BP.

In any event, the gas you buy at your local Shell, Conoco, Exxon, BP etc. May or may not have come from a a refinery owned by the company with the same name, and this refinery may or may not have processed oil produced by these companies in any of the locations mentioned. The truth is, oil companies, refiners and retailers trade crude oil and gasoline to minimize transportation costs. Citgo refineries do not process only crude oil from Venezuala, and Citgo stations do not sell only gasoline refined in Citgo refineries. I have seen Shell trucks loading gasoline at Conoco refineries and Exxon trucks loading gasoline at independent refineries.

Further, most of these retail outlets are not even owned by the companies whose brands they display. Instead they are independent businesses who have licensed the brand. True, but when I was working at an Arco, we were required to purchase only Arco gas.



I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in
California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line
of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to
get more of your money's worth for every gallon..

Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose , CA we deliver
about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day is
diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades.
We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons.


Only buy or *fill up your car or truck in the early morning* when the ground
temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their
storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense
the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the
afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the
petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the
gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays
an important role.

A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the
service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast
mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3)stages: low,
middle, and high. In slow mode you should be *pumping on low speed*, hereby
minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at
the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some
other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being
sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less
worth for your money.

One of the most important tips is to *fill up when your gas tank is HALF
FULL* or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your
tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster
than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof.
This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so t
minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, ever
truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is
actually the exact amount.

Another reminder, *if there is a gasoline truck pumping* into the storage
tanks when you stop to buy gas, *DO NOT fill up*--most likely the gasoline
is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up
some f the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will help
you get the most value for your money.

DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS!

WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON

Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It might
even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should
return the favor.

An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS.

Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the
coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import
their oil from the Saudis.

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the
tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family,
and my friends.

I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are
the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern
oil.

These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell........................... 205,742,000 barrels

Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels

Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels

Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels

Amoco...........................62,231,000 barrels

Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If you
do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (oil is
now $90 - $100 a barrel

Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:

Sunoco..................0 barrels

Conoco..................0 barrels

Sinclair.................0 barrels

B P/Phillips............0 barrels

Hess.......................0 barrels

ARC0....................0 barrels

If you go to Sunoco.com , you will get a list of the
station locations near you.

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each
is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are
importing.

I think Flying J is another company that does not purchase oil from countries that harbor and support terrorism. They are apart of the terror-free oil initiative.

Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

I'm not the expert, and I just cut and pasted the story, so don't quote me on it, but I do have to contest a couple of things here.

1) What you are describing is expansion of the gasoline in the cars fuel tank, not in the underground tanks.

2) Not sure how this would happen, there is probably some evaporation if the cooled gasoline is introduced into a hot line, but the speed of introduction will have nothing to do with it. Vapor/Liquid equilibrium just doesn't work this way, it's all about temperature and pressure.

But you don't really know where the "Arco" gasoline came from, if you were in LA, then it probably did come from the refinery in Carson, but if you were in Oakland, it probably came from one of the Bay area refineries. You may have gotten it from Arco, but Arco probably arranged for supply with the nearest refinery they could do a deal with.