Senator Obama's Memorial day speech!

I dunno. Obama's speeches seem to be of a piece with his writings. The man we see in Dreams From My Father and The Audacity of Hope is a pretty thoughtful guy, and very impatient with both political posturing (and partisanship) and Democratic pandering.

That's why I wasn't surprised with the decent tone of his Memorial Day speech. It was consistent with what he's said he believes all along.

I agree that pretty speeches don't a statesman make, but in a race of this kind, what's wrong with listening to the guy (or gal) who's at least smart enough to say the right things?

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Originally Posted by Navaja

Diplomacy with terrorists? Obviously you've already forgotten 911 and/or don't have any loved one been a victim of the attacks.

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That attack was carried out by a handful of terrorists. Not by a country.
There is no reason at all not to talk with foreign governments.

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Originally Posted by Navaja

Besides, the terrorists only interest is to destroy democracy.

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Really? They might actually be a bit annoyed with the US meddling in the internal politics of their home countries. If the US had done to Belgium what it had done to Iran and Iraq, I'd hold a grudge to if my family was killed in the upheavals.
Do you really expect those people to shrug it off and forgive the US?
The present situation in Iraq and Iran was caused by the US. Both Saddam in Iraq and the fundies in Iran were helped into power by the CIA, causing thousands to die.
Btw, the gov in Iran at that time was democratically elected. It just commited the capital sin of not agreeing with the US.

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Originally Posted by Navaja

If you have any doubts find out what the Castros, Chavez of the world are trying to accomplish.

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And what is Chavez trying to accomplish?

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Originally Posted by Navaja

But what can you expect, the only thing the man can do is "talk"

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The curent administration has shown what the results are of the cowboy approach.
They'd have gotten further if they had talked. Not to mention they'd have saved themselves trillions of dollars.

>Hezbollah handed Carter his hat in his hand

Hesbollah was founded in 1982.

>Iran's leader is saying the same thing

Here's an interesting quote from a paper written by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace-
"...And in the Spring of 2003, around the time Baghdad was captured by US forces in around 3 weeks, the Iranian government sent out quiet feelers to the Bush administration expressing an interest in addressing their mutual points of contention. In the proposal, Iran suggested that, in exchange for a US commitment to recognize the Islamic Republic and its security interests, it would cooperate on the nuclear issue and Iraq. Iran also stated its willingness to support a two-state solution to Palestine, cease material support to Palestinian opposition groups, and facilitate Hizbollah's transformation into a "mere political organization within Lebanon" in the framework of an overall agreement. For a variety of reasons, the United States chose not to pursue or even acknowledge the overture. In other wods, Iran has shown that it is willing to put state interests ahead of ideology when it is expedient"

Iran has a history of trying to approach normal relations with the United States, but each time the United States haven't been interested.

>Besides, the terrorists only interest is to destroy democracy.

Well...
-The Palestinians want a state
- The Kurds want autonomy
- Saudi domestic terrorists want a non-corrupt local government
- Lebanese terrorists was a political system that is just and reflects the actual makeup of the local population
- Tamils want their own state

All these actually have no real beef with the United States. Even Al-Qaida is split over whether 9/11 was a good idea- there was a split within the organisation, with those who believed that the 'near enemy' (local corrupt governments) needed to be taken on rather than the 'far enemy' (a meddling United States).

FWIW: The terrorist problem in the UK / Ireland was only ssolved when the political arms of both parties finally agreed to talk and compromise. Both leaderships got flak for that, but after 30 years the bombings stopped. There is still a lot of struggle, but at least now it's political and diplomatic instead of physical.

I am not really up to date on the details of what, how and when, but this is what some of my UK and Irish friends told me.

Certainly! Any problem- especially one that involves violence- can only be truly solved if the people on the ground agree to the terms. "High politics" can only go so far until they run across on the ground problems in regards to reconciliation and healing old wounds.

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Originally Posted by Navaja

Besides, the terrorists only interest is to destroy democracy.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Really? They might actually be a bit annoyed with the US meddling in the internal politics of their home countries.

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I'm going to have to agree with Bruno on this one, I get quite frustrated with people that claim that the attacks on 9/11/2001 were an attack on democracy rather than us* meddling in the affairs of other countries.Why? Because Osama Bin Laden said our meddling in foreign politics is why the attacks happened!

I'm shocked that we're still discussing it. Sadly, yes the Iranian army has been deemed a terrorist organization, defying the definition of terrorist and the lack of any proof on the matter. We should still talk to them, if war is the first option we take with a hostile nation what is the second?

*Edit: by us I mean the USA, I gotta be better about remembering that this is an international board.

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Originally Posted by riooso

How do I get sucked into this stuff! I think it is becoming disorder but here goes.

I am sorry, there are people you can not sit down and have a rational discussion with, ask former President Carter! Hezbollah handed Carter his hat in his hand. How can you possibly negotiate with an organization that says they want to see the Jews wiped off the face of the earth. I am confused sometimes. People will not listen to what leaders have to say. What? They don't mean it? Oh I see they are simple people with simple minds that do not know what they are saying. OH, they are doing it for the votes or for political gain? Iran's leader is saying the same thing.

The reason that Hitler is invoked in a lot of these discussions is that he is the the poster child for telling the world what he would do. The responses of many world leaders was the same.OH! He doesn't mean it, he is doing it for political gain......

Why is it that people will not listen to what they say! They really do mean it folks! There are people that want to kill you, and in many different ways that you, as civilized humans, can not comprehend !!!


Later,
Richard

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All enemies are willing to talk. Like Japan after we kicked the pee out of them. This country is in need of a warrior as president. Bush has been a simple wimp. If Osama had our resources the war would have long been over.

Could I just add that, coming from a country that's had one or two more terrorist attacks than the US, the only way - in the long run - to achieve peace is to talk to your enemy. It took us a very long time to learn that lesson. As for Obama's speech - I have enough trouble deciphering our politicians speeches, let alone yours.. ;):D

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Originally Posted by Weekend_Warrior

Could I just add that, coming from a country that's had one or two more terrorist attacks than the US, the only way - in the long run - to achieve peace is to talk to your enemy. It took us a very long time to learn that lesson. As for Obama's speech - I have enough trouble deciphering our politicians speeches, let alone yours.. ;):D

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Of course you could talk to the Irish theres enough commonality there, I mean pull out a bottle of good whiskey and you can get everyone at the table to be quiet long enough for discussions to begin. Make it a big enough bottle and they will stick around for a while too.

That just doesn't work with the Muslim extremest. He won't drink, and all he's interested in is virgins, yet he wraps his women up like Christmas presents every time they leave the house and considers it a sin to look at them.

You just can't talk man to man when a guy gives up wine and women theres no common ground.

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

Of course you could talk to the Irish theres enough commonality there, I mean pull out a bottle of good whiskey and you can get everyone at the table to be quiet long enough for discussions to begin. Make it a big enough bottle and they will stick around for a while too.

That just doesn't work with the Muslim extremest. He won't drink, and all he's interested in is virgins, yet he wraps his women up like Christmas presents every time they leave the house and considers it a sin to look at them.

You just can't talk man to man when a guy gives up wine and women theres no common ground.

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:bow :bow:bow

That's made my day! Thanks.:D