What is a proper punishment for destroying The Earth?

**leadduck** · 06-06-2008, 12:56 AM

So there you have it, hog. The punishment will come in the afterlife. I can remember telling my children that if we (environmentalists, of which I consider myself) are wrong about our beliefs, future generations will laugh at us. If we are right and we do nothing, they will curse the day we were born. This has been an unusual thread. Partly serious and melancholy, partly taken as a joke. Meandering from the environment to theology. An interesting one and well woth the time. Thank you.

**hoglahoo** · 06-06-2008, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by leadduck

This has been an unusual thread. Partly serious and melancholy, partly taken as a joke. Meandering from the environment to theology. An interesting one and well woth the time. Thank you.

If I'm not mistaken, Christian theology includes the destruction of the earth by fire anyway, with God promising a new heaven and a new earth. Maybe the fire is people overheating it? Who are we to stand in God's way?

I enjoy nature. Clean air, clear skies, animals that make noises, plants that smell good and make me feel better (aloe vera - what were you thinking I meant?). I like the water, the land, the snow, the wind, etc. I'm glad the earth is big enough to take care of itself as long as I don't go out of my way to muck it all up

**WireBeard** · 06-06-2008, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Seraphim

As a further aside: The Roman catholic church itself broke away from the original Christian Church in 1053A.D. I would say it has steadily gone downhill ever since.

The original Christian church is still going strong, it is called Eastern Orthodoxy.

Jusy a FYI for anyone who uses the Roman Catholic church (or protestant denominations, for that matter) as a basis on which to judge Christianity.

Very true....the Christian church legalized by Constantine resembled nothing one would recognize in Rome today. He took it from Rome to Constantinople. The Eastern church originated there, building on the churches founded in that region earlier.

**WireBeard** · 06-06-2008, 02:58 AM

I think saving or destroying the Earth is a misnomer....short of a large enough nuclear explosion to tear the planet into pieces. A better view would be making it uninhabitable for humans. The Earth can take care of itself - witness earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis.

The issue is what is the appropriate punishment for making the Earth uninhabitable for humanity. Such conduct falls squarely within the scope Felony Reckless Endangerment beforehand and Second-degree Murder afterwards (which is moot, as there will not be anyone around).

I wonder where negligence regarding the environment would fall with regard to this definition:

"Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity "are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. However, murder, extermination, torture, rape, political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of human rights, or depending on the circumstances, war crimes, but may fall short of falling into the category of crimes under discussion."

I wonder if we will see environment cases brought before the court in the Hague.....

**Bruce** · 06-06-2008, 03:06 AM

This is all much too heady for me. I still trying to figure out who thawed us out of the last Ice Age. And, and, who froze us in the first place?

**Quick Orange** · 06-06-2008, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by gugi

Oh, easy the answer is at 1:20

YouTube - Dr. Strangelove - "Mein FÃ¼hrer! I can walk!"

**DSailing** · 06-06-2008, 12:04 PM

Punishment? I don’t believe in punishment, but I do believe in effect. I don’t think we can destroy the earth itself, but we have already seen the capacity for humans to kill off thousands of entire species, kill off entire eco systems and make the land uninhabitable. This has been and continues to be the effect of our civilized way of life.

Civilization will eventually collapse and humans will be forced to live as they did before, but it will be difficult since we have wasted so many lands and removed the majority of the natural food sources. The small number of humans will once again see our brother species, plants, and our mother earth as living beings instead of resources that can be used and exploited.

The lessons are all there, all we have to do is listen to the native and indigenous cultures that we have not yet wiped completely out.

**hoglahoo** · 06-09-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by DSailing

Civilization will eventually collapse and humans will be forced to live as they did before, but it will be difficult since we have wasted so many lands and removed the majority of the natural food sources. The small number of humans will once again see our brother species, plants, and our mother earth as living beings instead of resources that can be used and exploited.

The lessons are all there, all we have to do is listen to the native and indigenous cultures that we have not yet wiped completely out.

Is the solution to completely abandon technology of every sort and live just like the animals? How do we know exactly how clean we need to live in order to satisfy our earth family? Maybe the native and indigenous cultures are also causing problems, just not on the great scale that the rest of humanity apparently is. How much is enough, and how many people today have to die for lack of technological advances before mother earth is happy? Is it ok to trade those people's lives for the possibility of the extension of life for future mankind? Which person whose life depends on pollution is willing to give their life up for The Earth?

**DSailing** · 06-09-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Is the solution to completely abandon technology of every sort and live just like the animals? How do we know exactly how clean we need to live in order to satisfy our earth family? Maybe the native and indigenous cultures are also causing problems, just not on the great scale that the rest of humanity apparently is. How much is enough, and how many people today have to die for lack of technological advances before mother earth is happy? Is it ok to trade those people's lives for the possibility of the extension of life for future mankind? Which person whose life depends on pollution is willing to give their life up for The Earth?

I don’t really know what the solution is if there is one. I don’t see anything wrong with people living like animals since we are only animals ourselves, but I think we are way too over populated for everybody to revert back to that simple of a life. I myself of course don’t live that way, but I do strive to make my life simpler and use less. We may be able to delay what I consider to be the inevitable, and maybe in the mean time, we will have a change of heart that strives for balance.

I’m sure that if the native and indigenous cultures had populations of 6 billion, then they too would be seeing some of the problems that we are experiencing. I doubt that they would have ever gotten to that large of a population though since getting to this point would have been against many of their beliefs.

I was just stating that we as a species have made a choice to live a certain way that happens to be very destructive. In the long run, I think many of the current population will die off along with many of the earth’s species, but it doesn’t end life. I don’t think that it is a trade; I think that it is a consequence of choices. If people are happy with this choice, then so be it. Life will go on and the earth will survive. For me though, I just want to live my life more in balance and closer to what is in my heart.

**hoglahoo** · 06-10-2008, 02:14 PM

Perhaps this Asheville hotel has a solution?

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