Thread: The Patriot Act, part 2

I don't mean to be a hard a$$, and I appologize if i came across this way.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

If this just pertained to calls to other countries I wouldn't be so against it. But it's not...this lets them listen into me calling a buddy to see if he wants to grab lunch, calling my grandma, or calling SWMBO and talking dirty. So, as long as this lets them do domestic spying on Joe Shmoe, I'm against it.

Who told you that? these are only international calls and not domestic calls!
If i'm wrong, show me, and not a local news story either, but the actual law that allows for the wire tapping of domestic calls!

Originally Posted by mhailey

I don't mean to be a hard a$$, and I appologize if i came across this way.

I was playing with you Matt!

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

Because, though being accused of it from time to time, I don't talk out my ass. My voice communicates all sorts of things, and it's not the privilege of my government to listen in. In both cases, there had better be a reasonable reason to search my orifices or my communications. If I don't look like I have something stuck up my ass or I'm calling dangerous people in dangerous places, then leave me alone.

If this just pertained to calls to other countries I wouldn't be so against it. But it's not...this lets them listen into me calling a buddy to see if he wants to grab lunch, calling my grandma, or calling SWMBO and talking dirty. So, as long as this lets them do domestic spying on Joe Shmoe, I'm against it.

This is just the point. The government does not need a reasonable reason, or any reason, to search you when you enter the country from a foreign nation. IT CAN JUST DO IT. This is well settled law.

Please point me to your source that this law allows the government to conduct warrant-less searches on domestic phone calls originating and ending in the USA.

Matt

Originally Posted by JMS

Who told you that? these are only international calls and not domestic calls!
If i'm wrong, show me, and not a local news story either, but the actual law that allows for the wire tapping of domestic calls!

Ok, spank me for not doing my research. The stories I read didn't differentiate beteween which types it allowed. I decided to go to the bill itself and sure enough y'all are right. Carry on

I still stand by my post with a slight omission: any bill which would allow domestic spying, I'm against.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

any bill which would allow domestic spying, I'm against.

AS AM I! But not internationl calls.

Matt

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

I still stand by my post with a slight omission: any bill which would allow domestic spying, I'm against.

We are in total agreement my friend!

Well good!

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

BTW: You must be an attorney.... truly a splitter of hairs!

Don't hold it against me. It's the 99% of all attorneys that give the rest of us a bad name.

Matt

Anyone who is debating warrants should do a re-reading of the original amendments. They say that the government should not write any warrants for searches.

The way the system was designed to work there should be no such thing as a search warrant at all, or a wiretapping warrant, none of it.

They were supposed to have to search you without a warrent whenever they felt they had probable cause.

And heres why:

A warrant is a judges ruling, before the event, that whatever the law enforcement agency is about to do is legal and necessary. This issuance from the court happens in a back room without any public access or representation.

Thats why they were supposed to have to do everything without warrants, so that you could sue the police agency and have a jury of your peers decide the legality of their actions.

Somewhere along the way this got turned around and is now ass backwards and not in the peoples favor. The worst part is that almost everyone thinks that the way it is now is the way it ought to be.

In light of the above, none of this really bothers me all that much, we are so far off the original track that its hard to worry about one more tree down this illegitimate path.