Thread: The War on Photographers

Originally Posted by jockeys

I think by now you pretty much all know where I stand: apart from classified installations, private property and nuclear installations, the government needs to mind it's own business and quit trying to infringe on the rights of the citizenry.

It sounds like the guards were private security, not the government. Or am I wrong on that?

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

It sounds like the guards were private security, not the government. Or am I wrong on that?

Jordan

You are wrong on that The security called the cops.

The government is getting overzealous with the rights of private citizens all around. This is just one particularly egregious example I hope everyone mentioned in those articles and everyone else being harassed wins their lawsuits, and makes it clear that violations of this type will not be tolerated.

I really wonder what would happen if one of these photographers was also a CPL holder I'm betting we would have another Rodney King type incident.

Frankly I think the Dept of homeland security is a total waste of my money and I think the next president should get rid of it in his first week. None of their actions so far have done anything to increase security and all of their actions have decreased freedom.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

You are wrong on that The security called the cops.
The government is getting overzealous with the rights of private citizens all around. This is just one particularly egregious example I hope everyone mentioned in those articles and everyone else being harassed wins their lawsuits, and makes it clear that violations of this type will not be tolerated.

I really wonder what would happen if one of these photographers was also a CPL holder I'm betting we would have another Rodney King type incident.

Frankly I think the Dept of homeland security is a total waste of my money and I think the next president should get rid of it in his first week. None of their actions so far have done anything to increase security and all of their actions have decreased freedom.

Fair enough on the first point.

I agree. I'd trust the NYPD or NY National Guardsmen a lot more than Homeland Security. I still don't think any of my freedoms have been taken away. How has increased security directly and concretely effected you or people you know? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy with that question. I'd really like to know.

Jordan

I for one now have to obtain a passport if I want to run to Canada for dinner, and a co-worker of my wifes can no longer get a new work visa despite working at the same company here in the states for the last decade. Just getting across the border now takes an incredible amount of time, and its not increased searches, its just increased paperwork checks. Thats all that department has done. Put into place policies that prevent people from effectively doing their jobs in order to process paper that makes it look like they are doing their jobs.

When the police are randomly stopping any citizen and searching them, the freedoms of all of us have been infringed, and that is a line we should not allow the government to cross.

Just to throw in my .02 with regards to the photographer incident. I dabble in photography, and I have gone out at odd hours with a lot of equipment, and I definately thought that I looked sketchy. On an average shoot, I might have two or three lenses, one body, tripod, and a pad and pen to make notes. I can certanly understand how someone might think I was a terrorist, stalker, etc, and I wouldn't really mind if police, security, etc came over to have a look and ask questions. Then again, I am completely out in the open and don't try to hide myself or anything I carry, so that should suggest otherwise.

I do not, however, see any need for there to be physical contact made between any officials and myself, should they be called it for any reason. While it certainly could be the case that someone who appears to be a photographer is actually up to something, there is no reason to assume that is the case. For that reason, I side with the photographer in this case.

I don't know the situation with your friend's wife and she has my sympathies. Is it specifically because of a new law or something that her work status has changed? I completely agree that the bloated bureaucracy is doing a terrible job in the execution of security measures. And that is unacceptable, but I don’t' think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Again, I don't think that these examples have ever been essential liberties guaranteed to American citizens. Situations change and documentation requirements change with them. That area has always been the purview of the government. That's nothing new.

The other issues (passports - why is it a big deal to get a passport once every 10 years? - and not being able to go to Canada for dinner) sound more like a matter of convenience than freedoms. When we are at war, we need to make sacrifices and convenience often comes first. People made relatively big sacrifices during WWII for example.

The government has done a poor job explaining why they are doing what they are doing. They're afraid to ask us to make sacrifices and that is a mistake. They should trust us to do that.

If a policeman stops me while I'm walking down the street in my suburban town because of some new "anti-terrorist" law, then you're right. Given the context it would be ridiculous. If a state trooper checks my bag while I'm on a crowded commuter train travelling to an obvious target, that's a different story. There may have been threats; you have the London bombings, etc. Under the circumstances, it’s appropriate. Again, this is common sense. What law btw specifically allows our police to stop people randomly and without cause? - as if police couldn't find a reason to stop you if they wanted to before 9/11.

I think we just disagree on what constitutes governmental meddling in the life of an average law-abiding citizen. To me, it sounds like much of the concern is on a conceptual level. I'm convinced that I've not lost any essential freedoms nor has anyone I know.

I certainly respect your concerns and I'm not trying to denigrate them. I just don't understand them all that well.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

How has increased security directly and concretely effected you or people you know? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy with that question. I'd really like to know.

When I went to college in NYC (1966), I used to like to walk across the George Washington Bridge. I live in Italy now but in 2005, I visited NYC with my wife and her two sons and I took them for a walk across the bridge. From the moment we set foot on it until the moment we got off, we were followed by a policeman on a bicycle. We weren't stopped or interefered with in any way, but the sensation of being watched was very uncomfortable and, needless to say, I wouldn't do it again.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

When I went to college in NYC (1966), I used to like to walk across the George Washington Bridge. I live in Italy now but in 2005, I visited NYC with my wife and her two sons and I took them for a walk across the bridge. From the moment we set foot on it until the moment we got off, we were followed by a policeman on a bicycle. We weren't stopped or interefered with in any way, but the sensation of being watched was very uncomfortable and, needless to say, I wouldn't do it again.

You see, my reaction to this is to feel safer and appreciate that the police are being vigilant. I would have smiled and said "how ya' doin'?" to the policeman because I know I have nothing to worry about from him. We view things from different places/perspectives.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

You see, my reaction to this is to feel safer and appreciate that the police are being vigilant. I would have smiled and said "how ya' doin'?" to the policeman because I know I have nothing to worry about from him. We view things from different places/perspectives.

Jordan

guess so. I'd feel quite the opposite.

I'm the kind of asshole that would tell my wife and kids to stare back for about five minutes. It's funny how quickly people will leave you alone when you do that. Plus, it's not like he can arrest you for it.

On the one hand, I can see people getting mad at photogs because of what Google is doing with Google streets. It's cool, but they really invade some people's privacy too much. For the most part though, and especially with the article, it's BS. Why do the police need to be called to search this man? The private security could have discussed the issue with him and had it been taken care of with no issues. Instead, he calls the police to have them do his job for him. What could have been a quiet conversation ended up being a shady search.