Thread: Stop the Bailout

GET "EM..... Sic em boy!!!! Good dog! Theyll find another way or the money mongers will put the screws to us.

Originally Posted by maplemaker

No, sadly you don't have it wrong. This is again a case of the people we send back to do our bidding thinking they know more about our own lives than we do. Funny, if I'm your employer and you don't do what I say I get to fire you, but people are so easily swayed by the "us vs. them (the rich/white/male/liberal/feminist/etc.)" argument that politicians drag out for another round every election cycle that nothing really changes.

Well, that's how representative democracy works. I don't think most people would consider direct democracy any better, and we don't get to switch back and forth depending on how we feel on a particular issue. Yes, in this case the employers do get the chance to fire every four years, so the fact that they can't get agree to do it is their own fault. People like to talk how low the approval ratings of congress are at the polls, but if you look at the turnover you'll notice that the approval ratings are actually extremely high. Classic case of when it's everybody else's fault but not mine/my guy's. To me the real evaluation is what the actions show, not the words.
From what I see the representative democracy is also extremely prone to corruption, as we all see. It's easy to criticize when things are not working, or glorify the infinite wisdom of 'the founding fathers' in setting it this way, when things work, but I haven't seen anybody propose any better system. It will indeed be great if everything worked as we want them to work, but it doesn't.

Personally I'd prefer the government stay out of it completely and let SHTF if that's the result of it. Most people are betting that SHTF is not going to happen and just don't want to pay the 2.5k/member of their family that the current plan costs. If their non FDIC insured savings start melting they'd probably wish they had taken the other option.

The way I see it there has been failures at every level, and the financial system should rightfully not be trusted. Propping it up to 'boost the confidence' is just creating another bubble. Because of the positive feedback the confidence will most certainly overshoot on the way down, but that's just how it should work - it overshot on the way up as well. The lenders trusted too much the rating agencies and made bad decisions - that really is not my problem. I live in this society, so I'd suffer the indirect consequences just like everybody else, but I don't think I should have to be directly involved in the problem by footing the bill.
If this plan gets passed and eventually works out, the same thing will just happen again with the next bubble - probably the alternative energy. I'd say let everybody see what the positive feedback does on the way down, as a practical lesson to think twice next time they it on the way up.

Gugi,

You nailed it pretty well. An old Carpenter once told me, "Measure twice, cut once."
You make a lot fewer mistakes doing it that way.
The clowns in Washington need to do a lot more measuring, BEFORE they cut.

Yeah gugi, we pretty much agree on this one! Shocking isn't it?

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

"I do not support a bailout of these financial entities, until AFTER the people who crashed them have been brought to trial, their assets stripped and they are rotting in a Federal Prison, NOT a country club surrounded by a chain link fence."

The problem is that it's not black and white as we like it to be. There are extreme cases, of course, but most of it was just the regular way of doing business. The banks were making the risky loans, because they didn't have to keep it and they had buyers wanting to purchase those mortgages from the banks. Investors were buying risky stock because they didn't understand the risk, or it was miscalculated. The people who can't pay the mortgage will loose the house. And I don't see what's wrong with somebody who just does their job of purchasing loans, repackaging it and then reselling them.

The fact of the matter is that most institutions are absolutely incapable of evaluating risk, that's why there are these specialized institutions that are supposedly better at it. If it weren't for them many things will be a whole lot costlier. And from the current situation I guess we just found out that they were not all that good after all. The free market will likely come up with at least temporary solution to this if given enough time.

Gugi,

I wasn't doing anything risky and I wasn't playing fast and loose with the books at any of these places.
So I am not inclined to pony up several thousand dollars to save the bacon of 'them what was.'

A Democratic Congressman from Oregon named DeFazio was on NPR this afternoon. He voted against the rescue package. Made some good points. He believes, as I do. that we need to shore up the credit markets to prevent a meltdown, but he thinks there's a better, cheaper way.

Don't know what to say about the pervasive, understandable subtext in many of these posts in favor of some sort of revenge for what's happened. Trouble is, as we very well know in this country, stupidity ain't necessarily illegal. Heck, it isn't even painful.

My opinion on that: Let's get the thing solved the best way we can. Let's do it expeditiously, but let's not panic and rush into anything. As far as the grifters on Wall Street are concerned, if there has been any wrongdoing, I'm sure the statute of limitations doesn't run out for a while yet.

Keep your chins up. This may work out better.

j

Don't know what to say about the pervasive, understandable subtext in many of these posts in favor of some sort of revenge for what's happened.

Nord Jim


Jim,

I'm not looking for revenge, only Justice. I have always been the sort of man who says, "Let the chips fall where they may." And if they land on some Fat-Cats, so be it.
I will repeat, I didn't do anything risky, or illegal. So why should I pay to clean up the mess for somebody who made several million bucks, while they possibly committed fraud?
BTW, the last time I checked, there were two crimes for which there was NO statute of limitations. Murder and Fraud. So you're right, we have a while.

And the two presidential candidates conveniently avoided the entire thing by being absent to campaign and, therefore, remaining noncommittal. I didn't see Clinton's name on either list either. What a crock.

Here's a link for the results of HR 3997. Look up the names of your representatives to find which ones voted for the bailout. Then vote them out come November. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Or, look down the list to see who voted aye. And yes... I'm sorry for the long post.

Adam Putnam (R-FL)
Adam Smith (D-WA)
Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
Albio Sires (D-NJ)
Alcee Hastings (D-FL)
Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)
Ander Crenshaw (R-FL)
Anna Eshoo (D-CA)
Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
Artur Davis (D-AL)
Barbara Cubin (R-WY)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
Bart Gordon (D-TN)
Betty McCollum (D-MN)
Bill Foster (D-IL)
Bob Etheridge (D-NC)
Bob Inglis (R-SC)
Brad Ellsworth (D-IN)
Brad Miller (D-NC)
Brian Baird (D-WA)
Brian Higgins (D-NY)
C.A. Ruppersberger (D-MD)
Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)
Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY)
Chaka Fattah (D-PA)
Charles Gonzalez (D-TX)
Charles Pickering (R-MS)
Charles Rangel (D-NY)
Charlie Melancon (D-LA)
Charlie Wilson (D-OH)
Chet Edwards (D-TX)
Chris Cannon (R-UT)
Chris Van Hollen (D-MD)
Christopher Murphy (D-CT)
Christopher Shays (R-CT)
Corrine Brown (D-FL)
Dale Kildee (D-MI)
Dan Boren (D-OK)
Dan Lungren (R-CA)
Danny Davis (D-IL)
Darlene Hooley (D-OR)
Dave Camp (R-MI)
Dave Loebsack (D-IA)
Dave Weldon (R-FL)
David Dreier (R-CA)
David Hobson (R-OH)
David Obey (D-WI)
David Price (D-NC)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)
Deborah Pryce (R-OH)
Dennis Cardoza (D-CA)
Dennis Moore (D-KS)
Diana DeGette (D-CO)
Doris Matsui (D-CA)
Earl Pomeroy (D-ND)
Ed Perlmutter (D-CO)
Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-TX)
Edolphus Towns (D-NY)
Edward Markey (D-MA)
Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Ellen Tauscher (D-CA)
Eric Cantor (R-VA)
F. Allen Boyd (D-FL)
Frank Pallone (D-NJ)
Frank Wolf (R-VA)
Fred Upton (R-MI)
Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
Gary Miller (R-CA)
George Miller (D-CA)
George Radanovich (R-CA)
Gerald McNerney (D-CA)
Greg Walden (R-OR)
Gregory Meeks (D-NY)
Gwen Moore (D-WI)
Harold Rogers (R-KY)
Heather Wilson (R-NM)
Henry Brown (R-SC)
Henry Waxman (D-CA)
Howard Berman (D-CA)
Howard McKeon (R-CA)
Ike Skelton (D-MO)
Jackie Speier (D-CA)
James Clyburn (D-SC)
James Langevin (D-RI)
James McGovern (D-MA)
James Moran (D-VA)
James Oberstar (D-MN)
James Walsh (R-NY)
Jane Harman (D-CA)
Janice Schakowsky (D-IL)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
Jim Cooper (D-TN)
Jim Costa (D-CA)
Jim Marshall (D-GA)
Jim McCrery (R-LA)
Jim McDermott (D-WA)
Jim Saxton (R-NJ)
Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO)
Jo Bonner (R-AL)
Joe Donnelly (D-IN)
Joe Sestak (D-PA)
Joe Wilson (R-SC)
John Boehner (R-OH)
John Boozman (R-AR)
John Campbell (R-CA)
John Dingell (D-MI)
John Hall (D-NY)
John Kline (R-MN)
John Larson (D-CT)
John McHugh (R-NY)
John Murtha (D-PA)
John Olver (D-MA)
John Peterson (R-PA)
John Sarbanes (D-MD)
John Spratt (D-SC)
John Tanner (D-TN)
Jon Porter (R-NV)
Joseph Crowley (D-NY)
Kay Granger (R-TX)
Keith Ellison (D-MN)
Ken Calvert (R-CA)
Kendrick Meek (D-FL)
Kevin Brady (R-TX)
Lamar Smith (R-TX)
Laura Richardson (D-CA)
Leonard Boswell (D-IA)
Lois Capps (D-CA)
Louise McIntosh Slaughter (D-NY)
Luis Gutierrez (D-IL)
Marion Berry (D-AR)
Mark Kirk (R-IL)
Mark Souder (R-IN)
Mary Bono Mack (R-CA)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Melissa Bean (D-IL)
Melvin Watt (D-NC)
Michael Arcuri (D-NY)
Michael Capuano (D-MA)
Michael Castle (R-DE)
Michael Ferguson (R-NJ)
Michael Honda (D-CA)
Michael McNulty (D-NY)
Michael Rogers (R-AL)
Mike Doyle (D-PA)
Mike Ross (D-AR)
Mike Simpson (R-ID)
Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
Nick Rahall (D-WV)
Niki Tsongas (D-MA)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Norman Dicks (D-WA)
Nydia Velazquez (D-NY)
Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)
Patrick Murphy (D-PA)
Paul Kanjorski (D-PA)
Paul Ryan (R-WI)
Pete Sessions (R-TX)
Peter King (R-NY)
Phil Hare (D-IL)
Rahm Emanuel (D-IL)
Ralph Regula (R-OH)
Ray LaHood (R-IL)
Richard Neal (D-MA)
Rick Boucher (D-VA)
Rick Larsen (D-WA)
Robert Andrews (D-NJ)
Robert Brady (D-PA)
Robert Cramer (D-AL)
Robert Wexler (D-FL)
Ron Kind (D-WI)
Ron Klein (D-FL)
Ron Lewis (R-KY)
Rosa DeLauro (D-CT)
Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-TX)
Rush Holt (D-NJ)
Russ Carnahan (D-MO)
Sam Farr (D-CA)
Sander Levin (D-MI)
Sanford Bishop (D-GA)
Silvestre Reyes (D-TX)
Spencer Bachus (R-AL)
Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
Stephen Cohen (D-TN)
Steve Israel (D-NY)
Susan Davis (D-CA)
Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)
Terry Everett (R-AL)
Thomas Allen (D-ME)
Thomas Davis (R-VA)
Thomas Reynolds (R-NY)
Thomas Tancredo (R-CO)
Tim Bishop (D-NY)
Tim Ryan (D-OH)
Timothy Mahoney (D-FL)
Tom Cole (R-OK)
Vernon Ehlers (R-MI)
Vic Snyder (D-AR)
Vito Fossella (R-NY)
Wally Herger (R-CA)
Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD)
Yvette Clarke (D-NY)
Zack Space (D-OH)
Zoe Lofgren (D-CA)

Originally Posted by gugi

And I don't see what's wrong with somebody who just does their job of purchasing loans, repackaging it and then reselling them.

.

I think it is ENTIRELY their job to evaluate the loan before purchasing it! "Hmmm, $500k house, 45k income, yeah I'll buy that mortgage, it's money in the bank!"

Actually, the whole thing was run more or less like a pyramid scheme. start with a crappy product (loan), and sell it to the next gut down the line....and so on, and so forth...well, the last guy they are proposing to get these bad loans in now you and I, my fellow Americans,

Write you congressmen & senators. Really. It takes no more effort to do so than to post your gripes here about it. Clearly state your opinion and tell them to stick up for YOU, as you are the ones who put them into office in the first place, and if they'd like to remain in office they should represent US.