Thread: Dear Mr. Obama

Originally Posted by Bruno

The US had to right to invade a sovereign country without just cause.

I will post a list of all of the UN resolutions pertaining to Iraq, most of which they violated.

The inspectors told everyone there were no WMD.
which ones? the ones that Iraq kick out, in violation of the UN resolutions?

The US later had to admit their evidence was fake.

Mistaken is not fake.

There was NO reason to invade Iraq.

Right, lets have the UN pass another resolution condemning Iraq's violation of the previous resolutions, and threatening that if Iraq violates more resolutions, the UN will pass another resolution.



Yes, it does. killing someone without a good reason is murder or manslaughter.
Thinking you are under attack is not enough reason to retaliate. You have to know you are under attack. Otherwise you are just a trigger happy gunner. Incidentally, this is exactly why you had no international support for the war in Iraq, as opposed to the one in Afghanistan, which was justifiable.
Iraq did not attack the US, and did not have anything to do with Al Qaeda. There was NO valid reason to invade.

So you would wait until he killed your wife, or would you wait until he killed your wife and your kid. But then you are not under attack. he was after your wife and child. Since you were not under attack, you can't do anything to stop him. Your wife could, but she is now dead. The fact that he had a cell phone does not negate the threats he made toward you, and the ominous position he took toward you.



Ehrm. Excuse me? The US went in on its own without anyone's blessing. Kofi Anan called the war illegal.
It was Bush who made threats. Not the UN. Your statement makes it look as if the UN sanctioned the war, but it didn't.
United Nations Security Council and the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
so the following resolutions don't mean anything?? Or shall we threaten more resolutions if these resolutions are not followed.



1483 (22 May 2003)

• Lifts non-military sanctions (para 10)
• Recognizes Britain and the United States as occupying powers ('The Authority'), and calls on them to attempt to improve security and stability, and provide opportunities for the Iraqis to determine their political future. Creates position of UN Special Representative to Iraq, to coordinate UN activity. Requires establishment of Development Fund for Iraq
• Summaries and analysis can be found on pages 10-13 of the Open Society Institute paper "Reconstructing Iraq: a guide to the issues", and in this article from the American Society of International Law. A Parliamentary research paper (2 June 2003) provides a British government perspective.
• Initial US-UK draft (9 May)
• Revised US-UK-Spain draft (15 May)
• The Open Society Institute criticized aspects of this resolution, and suggested changes to allow greater supervision of the occupying powers

UNSCR 1441 - November 8, 2002

• Called for the immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq and its prohibited weapons.
• Iraq must provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA full access to Iraqi facilities, individuals, means of transportation, and documents.
• States that the Security Council has repeatedly warned Iraq and that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations.

UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999

• 
  
• Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).
  
• Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.
  
• Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.
  
• Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.

UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998

• 
  
• "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.
  
• Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998

• 
  
• "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998

• 
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq."

UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997

• 
  
• "Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.
  
• Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997

• 
  
• "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
  
• Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997

• 
  
• "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
  
• Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996

• 
  
• "Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996

• 
  
• Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994

• 
  
• "Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.
  
• Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.
  
• Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq.

UNSCR 715 - October 11, 1991

• 
  
• Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 707 - August 15, 1991

• 
  
• "Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687.
  
• "Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
  
• Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance.
  
• Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs.
  
• Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
  
• Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities.
  
• Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq.
  
• Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 688 - April 5, 1991

• 
  
• "Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security."
  
• Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population.
  
• Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance.

UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991

• 
  
• Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."
  
• Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities.
  
• Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities."
  
• Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction.
  
• Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
  
• Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program.
  
• Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs.
  
• Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq.
  
• Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others.
  
• Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991

• 
  
• Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.
  
• Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.
  
• Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.

UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990

• 
  
• Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."
  
• Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."

Complete Index of UN Security Council Resolutions
Additional UN Security Council Statements


In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. The index for UNSC Presidential Statements is on the UN website. The list of statements includes:

• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1991
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 5, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 19, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 28, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 6, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 11, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 12, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, April 10, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 17, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, July 6, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, September 2, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 24, 1992
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 8, 1993
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 11, 1993
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 18, 1993
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1993
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1993
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 8, 1994
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 19, 1996
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 14, 1996
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, August 23, 1996
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 30, 1996
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 13, 1997
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 29, 1997
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 13, 1997
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 3, 1997
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 22, 1997
• UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 14, 1998

I guess I have to type something down here to post this response.

Matt

Originally Posted by mhailey

I guess I have to type something down here to post this response.

Matt

There were dozens and dozens of resolutions. but there was no UN resolution to go to war. The US decided to do that on its own.

As for your example about shooting that man: you can shoot the moment you see a weapon. Not before. You don't have to wait until your wife is dead, but neither should you someone on just an assumption.
You were walking in a public place. If he had been entering your home, it would be something else.

And your example also doesn't translate into the situation you described.
Iraq wasn't threatening the US. Iraq was badmouthing the US, but the US does the same to Iran and North Korea.

The US leadership knew they went to Iraq without evidence. Saddam was also not an al qaeda supporter, and he didn't even have a delivery mechanism for the weapons he didn't have. He had some scuds with a very limited range; no ICBM capability.

Originally Posted by Bruno

There were dozens and dozens of resolutions. but there was no UN resolution to go to war. The US decided to do that on its own.

As for your example about shooting that man: you can shoot the moment you see a weapon. Not before. You don't have to wait until your wife is dead, but neither should you someone on just an assumption.
You were walking in a public place. If he had been entering your home, it would be something else.

And your example also doesn't translate into the situation you described.
Iraq wasn't threatening the US. Iraq was badmouthing the US, but the US does the same to Iran and North Korea.

The US leadership knew they went to Iraq without evidence. Saddam was also not an al qaeda supporter, and he didn't even have a delivery mechanism for the weapons he didn't have. He had some scuds with a very limited range; no ICBM capability.

So what "serious consequences" should there have been for the failure to abide by the prior resolutions? Another resolution?

Originally Posted by mhailey

So what "serious consequences" should there have been for the failure to abide by the prior resolutions? Another resolution?

I don't know.
Iraq was harming nobody and imo, they could have gone on bickering until the end of time. Iraq is a sovereign nation. It doesn't have to care for anything the US or the UN says.
The UN isolated Iraq for failing to comply. Fair enough for me. Eventually Saddam would have fallen on his own.

The US ignores the nuclear non proliferation treaty and is still performing biological and chemical weapons research and development. How is the US different from what Iraq was accused of (but ultimately didn't do)?

The only difference is that the US has enough clout to badger the other countries into compliance, or at least into a position of non opposition. The only difference is that the US can get away with it.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't know.
Iraq was harming nobody and imo, they could have gone on bickering until the end of time. Iraq is a sovereign nation. It doesn't have to care for anything the US or the UN says.
The UN isolated Iraq for failing to comply. Fair enough for me. Eventually Saddam would have fallen on his own.

The US ignores the nuclear non proliferation treaty and is still performing biological and chemical weapons research and development. How is the US different from what Iraq was accused of (but ultimately didn't do)?

The only difference is that the US has enough clout to badger the other countries into compliance, or at least into a position of non opposition. The only difference is that the US can get away with it.

You are the first European I have heard say the the UN is an impotent power, which no nation needs to pay any heed. Usually it is the European nations standing up and promoting the use of the UN. The other problem was the France, Germany and many other countries were not abiding by the UN resolutions and Iraq was not isolated. There was rampant abuse of the oil for food program, and many of the high ranking UN representatives and other nations were making billions on the abuse of this program. With the invasion of Iraq, this program ceased to be necessary. Could it be that the nations opposed to the invasion of Iraq, and which blocked resolutions for the invasion were the same countries making billions on this abuse?????!!!

Please provide support for your statement regarding the USA's alleged ignoring of the nuclear non proliferation treaty. Show me your support that the USA is continuing to develop offensive biological weapons. Also, the US is a signatory to the UN-sponsored Chemical Weapons Convention. United States Chemical Weapons Convention Web Site Please provide support that the US is in violation of this convention.


Matt

Originally Posted by mhailey

You are the first European I have heard say the the UN is an impotent power, which no nation needs to pay any heed. Usually it is the European nations standing up and promoting the use of the UN. The other problem was the France, Germany and many other countries were not abiding by the UN resolutions and Iraq was not isolated. There was rampant abuse of the oil for food program, and many of the high ranking UN representatives and other nations were making billions on the abuse of this program. With the invasion of Iraq, this program ceased to be necessary. Could it be that the nations opposed to the invasion of Iraq, and which blocked resolutions for the invasion were the same countries making billions on this abuse?????!!!

Please provide support for your statement regarding the USA's alleged ignoring of the nuclear non proliferation treaty. Show me your support that the USA is continuing to develop offensive biological weapons. Also, the US is a signatory to the UN-sponsored Chemical Weapons Convention. United States Chemical Weapons Convention Web Site Please provide support that the US is in violation of this convention.


Matt

Matt, do you have a link to some source for this information? It is likely that the source would cover a topic I am trying to research myself! Thanks for the help fellow Eagle.

-Rob

The New York Times > International > Middle East > Under Eye of U.N., Billions for Hussein in Oil-for-Food Plan=

Here is a link to the Volker reports into the Oil for Food program, and how Iraq manipulated the program.

UN Oil-for-Food Programme | UNAUSA.org

Originally Posted by mhailey

So what "serious consequences" should there have been for the failure to abide by the prior resolutions? Another resolution?

Maybe something a little less "serious" than 85,000+ dead human beings.

Lou

Originally Posted by voerman

Maybe something a little less "serious" than 85,000+ dead human beings.

Lou

still didn't answer my question. provide alternatives, not talking points.

Matt

Originally Posted by mhailey

still didn't answer my question. provide alternatives, not talking points.

Matt

Why do we need an alternative? Sometimes the status-quo is better than the other options...