Thread: So What? Let it go

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

Don't you find that statement to be at odds with the ones you made in the medicine thread?

earners vs non-earners?

I don't see how they are at odds you can be a black waste of resources as easily as a white waste of resources, recognizing that isn't bigotry its taking out the trash.

His argument isn't us vs. them its against us supporting them for no real reason.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I like to hope you're preaching to the choir. The few stubborn ones left will probably never change their minds, but we can continue to set good examples for the next generations

Lee, I agree with you completely. I have come to believe the prejudiced mind is very much like the overstuffed closet gag in the I Love Lucy show. When you try to have an intelligent conversation with the bigot it is like opening the door to that packed closet. When that closet door is opened ever so slightly, it is immediatley apparent there is no room in there for anything new and all that clutter they've been storing for years just starts falling out on your head.

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

Don't you find that statement to be at odds with the ones you made in the medicine thread?

earners vs non-earners?

apples and oranges.


being a particular ethnicity is something you ARE. earning and being useful is something you DO. i am all about holding people responsible for their choices and actions. you don't get to choose your ethnicity, therefore it isn't cool (in my view) to judge people on it.

Originally Posted by WireBeard

Racism is the attack dog of self-loathing and ignorance.

That is the best summation of racism I've ever seen. Yours, or did you find it?

I remember when we moved to a small town and my oldest started kindergarten and would come home crying almost daily because the kids made fun of him for speaking Spanish. Not quite the same as being in line in a gas station, but ****ed me off anyway. Native speaker in two languages being made fun of by children who were barely literate in one.

Originally Posted by WireBeard

Racism is the attack dog of self-loathing and ignorance.

As someone who is surrounded by the ignorant, self-loathing hillfolk... I concur with this heartily.

Originally Posted by jockeys

there will always be bigotry in general and racism in particular as long as each particular generation feels the need to "get even" for how previous generations were treated.

i've said it before, and i'll say it again: collectivism sucks. as long as people see other people as "[racial group] people" and not just "people" there will be problems. labels inevitable lead to the "us vs. them" mentality.

Here's a news of an horrific event that would be very difficult to chalk up to collectivism:
The Associated Press: Another dragging death in Texas raises tensions

Perhaps "Getting even" isn't the goal of most folks. I agree that there is alot of baggage carried by alot of people but there are still many white supremist groups like the KKK and the American Nazi Party that have an agenda so foolish and so ignorant that it would be laughable if it weren't so evil. The hatred and brutality against non-whites and homosexuals and Jews is not limited to "previous generations". It is real and it happens every day, in the north too:
Long Island 'lynch mob' killed our American Dream

Jockeys, I disagree with your dismissive attitude. These hateful acts have nothing to do with "collectivism".

I guess you guys took my statement as being strictly about race. It was more about the type of statement that was made.

as long as people see other people as "[racial group] people" and not just "people" there will be problems. labels inevitable lead to the "us vs. them" mentality.

You complain about labels, and about grouping subsections of the population into a homogeny. Yet on the other hand you use the same logic in reverse concerning non-earners in the US society. My post had nothing to do with race, more about philisophical stance.

You don't like to see [blank] people instead of just "people".

Originally Posted by icedog

Jockeys, I disagree with your dismissive attitude. These hateful acts have nothing to do with "collectivism".

read the articles, I still think it could be called collectivism in the long island thing. they were grouping by stereotype, which I call collectivism. wasn't trying to be dismissive, just trying to discover a common thread.

as to the east texas incident, I unfortunately lived there for 7 years, and that kind of stupidity is fairly common there, I offer no explanation except rampant stupidity and a pervasive culture of fear, violence, and poor impulse control.

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

You complain about labels, and about grouping subsections of the population into a homogeny. Yet on the other hand you use the same logic in reverse concerning non-earners in the US society. My post had nothing to do with race, more about philisophical stance.

You don't like to see [blank] people instead of just "people".

perhaps, let's phrase it thus:

I see people (not [label] people). but people DO things, and i see what they do, and have no problem labeling people based on choices and actions. it's all about responsibility. you aren't responsible for what you ARE (black, white, tall, short, girl, boy, etc) but you ARE (and should be) responsible for what you DO.

I really don't know any other way to explain the difference between the two. it really is apples and oranges, I'm not sure how I'm failing to communicate this.

Originally Posted by jockeys

read the articles, I still think it could be called collectivism in the long island thing. they were grouping by stereotype, which I call collectivism. wasn't trying to be dismissive, just trying to discover a common thread.

as to the east texas incident, I unfortunately lived there for 7 years, and that kind of stupidity is fairly common there, I offer no explanation except rampant stupidity and a pervasive culture of fear, violence, and poor impulse control.

You're right. On LI the punks went out "to beat up some Mexicans". However they had no idea who their victim was or where he was from. It was/is just plain old fashioned iignorant hatred. This sort of thing upsets me.