Thread: Shaving and Orthodox Judaism story

Originally Posted by majurey

Yes, we were young (me 19, she 20) and we did go through a lot of stress. I'm very lucky she was strong and stood up for me and our relationship. 20 years on and our two kids are 6 and 3. My son was circumcised (the bris was probably the most difficult thing I have had to endure). My relief at having a girl second time around (especially as we were told to expect a boy at the scan) was huge. But now at 6 we're faced with the conundrum of whether to send him to Hebrew School on Sundays, to eventually prepare him for his Bar Mitzvah. It's crunch time again.

You see, I finally have a problem with this. If we sent him to lessons, it would be for the benefit of his grandparents (my in-laws), since [1] I am an agnostic, and [2] my wife is not an observant Jew. It would be merely to appease my in-laws. That doesn't make it wrong necessarily (it's both about an individual's belief as well as the wider family's beliefs), but it puts me in a very difficult position with my children.

For example, he will be taught stuff I just don't believe. How will I reconcile that with him in discussions at such a young age. "Why don't you believe in God, Dad? My teacher says... etc." And the killer in my mind "If you don't believe in this, why are you sending me to Hebrew school every Sunday?" There's so many shades of grey here it's overawing.

Ignoring the issue won't make it go away. The day will come when my in-laws will wonder what the hell we're doing to prepare for his Bar Mitzvah, and the coming of age for a boy is still regarded as a big thing even amongst Jews who are not particularly observant. My wife still believes it's an important social tradition (I would probably agree given that the concept of a ritual to mark the coming of age for young men is hardly specific to Judaism!).

Ach, sorry, I've gone way OT and in danger of !

Oy vay.

If you want my opinion, I would send him. Here's my reasoning:

1. He is Jewish. If you have to be something, it's probably better to understand what it is.

2. I don't think they talk alot about god in Jewish sunday school. It's more about the bible and Jewish history and, indirectly, about god. And don't worry, he won't ask you questions like why don't you believe in god until he's much older.

3. He'll learn something about the bible and, as you well know, the bible is one of the cornerstones of our culture.

4. He'll probably learn some Hebrew. Learning a foreign language when you're young helps you learn other languages later. Also, he'll learn to write backwards, which is neat trick to show your friends.

5. Being Jewish and having Jewish friends is certainly not a handicap in our society. You work in publishing and must certainly have noticed a high percentage of Jews in the media. And, if he wants to become an international banker, wow!

I could go on but I already have eough enemies...

What are the othodox's view of straights? I did not think that they had anything against them, electrics I can understand.

Originally Posted by jbcohen

What are the othodox's view of straights? I did not think that they had anything against them, electrics I can understand.

According to the Orthodox, a straight razor is a knife that scrapes the face and, therefore, forbidden. In my day (I'm 60 and haven't been around many Jews since I was 20), most Orthodox didn't shave at all. Shaving was an innovation of the Conservative movement, which thought that Jews should try and blend in more with the local culture. The Conservatives said that an electric shaver was OK because it was a scissors cutting the hair and not a knife scraping the face (this is an example of Talmudic hair-splitting, pun intended).

I don't know much about judaism so I cannot give answers that are authoritative on the subject, but my wife and I have the same situation regarding catholicism.

I will forego the details of what I believe in, but I am not in the catholic camp anymore, and neither is my wife. We did not marry before the catholic church (we were married by a reverend in the US so I don't know if that would constitute being married) and our children aren't baptised.

Most schools here are catholic, and my oldest goes to catholic preschool.
If she asks questions we try to give an answer that is historically accurate. If she gets older and starts asking difficult questions, I want her to understand the clear line between fact and faith.
If she decides she wants to be catholic at a relatively mature age, we will let her be baptised and we will support her.

But I don't want her to become catholic, just because that's what's been foisted onto us at birth. If she becomes one, it will be her choice.

We got some flak from my mother and grandmother inlaw. It's been a while since she brought it up again, but we told her look. the principles and consequences of being (un)baptised are such and such. do you believe that? well neither do we. So why should we do this if none of us actually believes it?'
I have a lot of respect for people who believe, even though I may not agree. I have a lot of respect for those who thought about it for a long time, and then decided they didn't.

But I have no respect for the sheeple who just go through the motions because the family expects it, or because they want to prance down the isle in nice clothes but can't otherwise be bothered to go to church.

That said, with catholicism it's never too late to make the choice. I don't know if judaism is as easy to get into as catholicism. If the priest is convinced you are serious and you know what catholicism entails, becoming a full fledged catholic is a matter of minutes.

Originally Posted by Bruno

That said, with catholicism it's never too late to make the choice. I don't know if judaism is as easy to get into as catholicism. If the priest is convinced you are serious and you know what catholicism entails, becoming a full fledged catholic is a matter of minutes.

In the US, it depends on if you were baptized or not (what the church considers "baptized" that is) and what time of year you are trying to convert. Adults converting to Catholicism are only baptized once a year in a special mass before easter. Prior to that they are attending classes on the history of the church, its beliefs and values etc. But all of this can certainly be short circuited if its the right time of year.


I was raised catholic and went to parochial school through high school, but later determined that God and I don't need a middle man.

I will say I have a tremendous respect for the Jesuits as an intellectual group.


-Rob