Thread: go to prison for insulting someone?

Originally Posted by mhailey

no one is barring you from begining a new thread on your hatred of Israel, or Muslim anger in general, but to hijack this thread on freedom of speech into discussing the supposed justifications of anti-semitism is uncalled for.

Matt

Very well put!

Originally Posted by mhailey

no one is barring you from begining a new thread on your hatred of Israel, or Muslim anger in general, but to hijack this thread on freedom of speech into discussing the supposed justifications of anti-semitism is uncalled for.

Matt

"Shut up! We're talking about freedom of speech." I love it!

Everyone needs to stay on topic or move on. The topic is a specified in the original post. Fair warning.


You all know the way this should go, now rise to the occasion.


-Rob

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Just a quibble ... The Wikipedia article on antisemitism has this definition:

Anti-Semitism is baseless hostility toward Jews.

Was their hostility baseless? If the only Jewish voices heard are those supporting Israel and the few voices of Jews that are opposed to what it is doing are drowned out, is it unreasonable that they would think that all Jews support Israel?

On the subject of Muslim anger in general. I would like to ask you to answer the following questions:

Which Western countries are currently being occupied by Muslim armies? Which Western countries are currently hosting the military bases of Muslim countries? Which Western countries are being bombed by Muslim airforces? In general, have more Westerners been killed by Muslims or more Muslims been killed by Westerners? The United States imposed an embargo on Iraq for ten years before invading it. How many Western countries are being embargoed by Muslim countries? And on and on ... I think that if you were a Muslim and looked at the world from a Muslim perspective, I'd think you'd be pretty damn upset.

Out of respect for the threadstarter, I will leave the subject.I will however answer any of your questions in a PM if you are int.

Kristoffer.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Just a quibble ... The Wikipedia article on antisemitism has this definition:

Anti-Semitism is baseless hostility toward Jews.

Was their hostility baseless? If the only Jewish voices heard are those supporting Israel and the few voices of Jews that are opposed to what it is doing are drowned out, is it unreasonable that they would think that all Jews support Israel?

On the subject of Muslim anger in general. I would like to ask you to answer the following questions:

Which Western countries are currently being occupied by Muslim armies? Which Western countries are currently hosting the military bases of Muslim countries? Which Western countries are being bombed by Muslim airforces? In general, have more Westerners been killed by Muslims or more Muslims been killed by Westerners? The United States imposed an embargo on Iraq for ten years before invading it. How many Western countries are being embargoed by Muslim countries? And on and on ... I think that if you were a Muslim and looked at the world from a Muslim perspective, I'd think you'd be pretty damn upset.

Originally Posted by KristofferBodvin

Why? Because they hate anything related to the western society.They refuse to play by the rules in a secular country.And worst of all, we let them....I have a friend in the police force in Oslo.He is not as biased towards muslims as I am, as he is a kurd.He was present at the riots, and he heard them shoating that they would " break in to the university to hunt jews "
This is pure antisemitism, and it seems to get a lot of acceptance.....Its really sad

I'm sorry; I didn't phrase my question well. What I meant was, why would the society/culture there permit such things to take place. Why would it turn itself upside down to accommodate such concepts that are so alien to its core values. I mean, we have political correctness run amok here, but not nearly to that extent. I've never understood why European nations don't put a stop the immigration.

I hope this question relates enough to the initial post.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

I'm sorry; I didn't phrase my question well. What I meant was, why would the society/culture there permit such things to take place. Why would it turn itself upside down to accommodate such concepts that are so alien to its core values. I mean, we have political correctness run amok here, but not nearly to that extent. I've never understood why European nations don't put a stop the immigration.

I hope this question relates enough to the initial post.

Jordan

The people of Netherland seem to be voluntarilly limiting their own right to freedom of speech in order to conform to the requirements of those that immigrated into their country, that nothing bad be said about islam, or its prophet, but allowing the freedom of speech (and i guess freedom of rioting/looting/pillaging/assults/battery/...) of the muslims that have immigrated into their society out of "tollerance."

I don't understand it.

Matt

Edit: their own limitation on their right to freedom of speech is legislated political correctness.

Originally Posted by mhailey

The people of Netherland seem to be voluntarilly limiting their own right to freedom of speech in order to conform to the requirements of those that immigrated into their country, that nothing bad be said about islam, or its prophet, but allowing the freedom of speech (and i guess freedom of rioting/looting/pillaging/assults/battery/...) of the muslims that have immigrated into their society out of "tollerance."

I don't understand it.

Matt

Edit: their own limitation on their right to freedom of speech is legislated political correctness.

I agree with your conclusion. I don't understand it either. I feel that if anyone tried to pass or enforce something like that here, the backlash would be substantial - too substantial to make it worth anyone's while. Maybe I'm wrong though. I'm surprised by how far we've let political correctness go already.

Jordan

Originally Posted by mhailey

The people of Netherland seem to be voluntarilly limiting their own right to freedom of speech in order to conform to the requirements of those that immigrated into their country, that nothing bad be said about islam, or its prophet, but allowing the freedom of speech (and i guess freedom of rioting/looting/pillaging/assults/battery/...) of the muslims that have immigrated into their society out of "tollerance."

I don't understand it.

Matt

Edit: their own limitation on their right to freedom of speech is legislated political correctness.

Your question is very difficult to answer, but there is something that America has that europe hasn't.
With barrack Obama USA have got a president that represents the nations highest ideals: loyalty, sacrefice, a will to work, duty, and most precious of all: faith. faith of the nation, of the community, faith of there being a contract not only between the leaders and the people, but also between the people and god.That nothing becomes without the pressense of god.These are words that no european dear to speak. In only 60 years we have lost faith. Even tough hundreds of thousends sacrefised them selves in fighting nazism, we have lost faith.It is unbeliaveble
This is what Obama and America can teach us, if we dear to commitWe don't have to replicate the americans, we have the treassure burried in our own history.Both men and women sacrefised everythingWe need those ideals.We need to see examles of those ideals.And I believe our people want to have faith I believe the time is has come to show patrionism, to show it without being umbarrased.The kind of pationism the americans embrace without blushing
The biggest obstacle is the -68 generation, they loath virtues such as these.Nationalism,paternalism,authority and God.The following generation grew up as ironic people without believes of any kind.The people who tore down the image of God in our society, got themselvesthe most bloody and horrid of all deieties: Mao and Pol Pot
The -68 generation did not gain so much power, but they had alot of cultural power. They severed a thread in our historical way of life, they broke a continuety.So that we now are ashamed to be europeans.We are only allowed to be it in a small and boring way.A flat, even and socialdemocratic way.
But such is not the original european patriotism, it has something volcanic.And this is what is missing in our self image. To be allowed to use the big words.The love for our countries have something strong and wild in it, like a force of nature.
We have become dobble people, we pretend to be nationals and cosmopolitans.
But we are neither, because we don't deare to be our selves.
This is what you amaricans do.You dear to believe.It is the faith that is the key, it is not a private thing I'm talking about, but the belief of the best for the nation.And the examples and the virtues, and these should have a national religouse background.In our time with so many cultures, a national patrionism may be the spark we lack.Honesty, sacrefice,loyalty and the search of truth never goes out of fashion.They are not local, but universal aspirations.Of course they have a local origin, we are in europe, and new imigrants would understand them.Like they have in the US.It is our history, but we should invite them to join us for shaping the future.It is a community, and a community demands.It is something we should reach for.

Peeowh...glad to get that of my chest

Originally Posted by KristofferBodvin

Your question is very difficult to answer, but there is something that America has that europe hasn't.
With barrack Obama USA have got a president that represents the nations highest ideals: loyalty, sacrefice, a will to work, duty, and most precious of all: faith. faith of the nation, of the community, faith of there being a contract not only between the leaders and the people, but also between the people and god.That nothing becomes without the pressense of god.These are words that no european dear to speak. In only 60 years we have lost faith. Even tough hundreds of thousends sacrefised them selves in fighting nazism, we have lost faith.It is unbeliaveble
This is what Obama and America can teach us, if we dear to commitWe don't have to replicate the americans, we have the treassure burried in our own history.Both men and women sacrefised everythingWe need those ideals.We need to see examles of those ideals.And I believe our people want to have faith I believe the time is has come to show patrionism, to show it without being umbarrased.The kind of pationism the americans embrace without blushing
The biggest obstacle is the -68 generation, they loath virtues such as these.Nationalism,paternalism,authority and God.The following generation grew up as ironic people without believes of any kind.The people who tore down the image of God in our society, got themselvesthe most bloody and horrid of all deieties: Mao and Pol Pot
The -68 generation did not gain so much power, but they had alot of cultural power. They severed a thread in our historical way of life, they broke a continuety.So that we now are ashamed to be europeans.We are only allowed to be it in a small and boring way.A flat, even and socialdemocratic way.
But such is not the original european patriotism, it has something volcanic.And this is what is missing in our self image. To be allowed to use the big words.The love for our countries have something strong and wild in it, like a force of nature.
We have become dobble people, we pretend to be nationals and cosmopolitans.
But we are neither, because we don't deare to be our selves.
This is what you amaricans do.You dear to believe.It is the faith that is the key, it is not a private thing I'm talking about, but the belief of the best for the nation.And the examples and the virtues, and these should have a national religouse background.In our time with so many cultures, a national patrionism may be the spark we lack.Honesty, sacrefice,loyalty and the search of truth never goes out of fashion.They are not local, but universal aspirations.Of course they have a local origin, we are in europe, and new imigrants would understand them.Like they have in the US.It is our history, but we should invite them to join us for shaping the future.It is a community, and a community demands.It is something we should reach for.

Peeowh...glad to get that of my chest

Very interesting to hear the European view point. I'm very refreashed by this. I alway thought that most Europeans looked down on Americans as those uncooth, uncivilized cowboys, with their guns, and their national pride.

Matt