Thread: eBay UK Knife Ban

To be fair, the knife crime in the UK is going through the roof, so they have to do something.
Unfortunately, banning knives is not going to solve the problem.

Most of the knife crime is committed with kitchen knives, which are far more suited to that sort of thing than folders or other knives.
One bozo even suggested banning the sale of pointed kitchen knives, because most people don't really need the point.

But even if they manage to ban kitchen knives, there'll always be scissors.
And exacto knives.
And axes.
And screwdrivers.
And sharpened pencils.
And battons
And tire irons
And chains
And...

Instead of trying to ban all these things, they'd better start looking at the social / cultural reason for all this violence, and do something about it. Because sooner or later the situation is going to explode.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Instead of trying to ban all these things, they'd better start looking at the social / cultural reason for all this violence, and do something about it. Because sooner or later the situation is going to explode.

Come on, Bruno, be realistic! If you "start looking at the social/cultural reasons for all this violence, and do something about it" you're going to end up stepping on the toes of the powerful. Besides, if the situation explodes, there is a police state waiting in the wings to restore order.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Instead of trying to ban all these things, they'd better start looking at the social / cultural reason for all this violence, and do something about it. Because sooner or later the situation is going to explode.

Definitely.

I understand it's a different culture, and I hate to sound like a cowboy, but arm the citizens that are getting shanked and I bet that crime would drop considerably. Take that man that was killed by a katana from the news story I posted. If that was my dad (or anyone else) in the small town I used to live in, he would've gone up to those punks with a shotgun in their face- probably would've fired one off for effect. The police would have backed him up.

I do apologize if I'm taking this any further off topic, but it seems mind boggling to me the way that this violent crime can be almost pranced around in front of good, law abiding people, and they can't do anything about it. Or when they do something about it, such as the disabled man that tried to protect his neighbor's store, they get punished. I just can't fathom that.

What surprises me is that none of these neighborhoods have started a vigilante group yet.
I realize it's against the law, and it would cause a smurf storm if it ever got out.

But if the situation is so bad that you are living in a war zone and your kids are in danger, and the law can't protect you anymore, and the law furthermore only seems to be intended to prevent you from defending yourself, ...
At some point, enough is enough.

I am moving this into the Conversation forum because we are drifting away from the purpose of this thread. But I will leave a redirect in place in the ebay forum.

Murder is a matter of WILL! Not what is in your hand. There are ways to kill, using nothing BUT your hands. As long as a criminal's rights take priority over the rights of the hapless people he savagely killed, then there will always be a problem. And as long as children aren't taught discipline and that there are certain and sure consequences to their evil deeds, they literally won't care who they hurt.
It is human nature to go as far as possible and to get away with all you can. THAT is why we have laws. But if those laws are totally screwed up and the nanny state is run by idiots who say, "Let MY conscience be YOUR guide," we get chaos.
There are no absolutes anymore. Kids aren't taught that it is absolutely wrong to hurt others. They aren't taught that it is absolutely wrong to prey on innocent people. And if they engage in that behavior, they are going to absolutely be punished so severely that they won't EVER hurt another, again.
Laws cannot protect us. Laws only prohibit certain behavior and prescribe a particular punishment if the law is violated. The statutes against murder only come into play AFTER someone has been killed.
The law cannot stop anyone from doing anything. It can only make them wish they hadn't committed the crime.

Originally Posted by Brother Jeeter

There are no absolutes anymore. Kids aren't taught that it is absolutely wrong to hurt others. They aren't taught that it is absolutely wrong to prey on innocent people.

Not that I disagree with your general opinion, but I teach my kids this.
This is one of the very few inviolable rules in my house.

The problem is that not enough people are teaching this anymore, and that society accepts this.

Originally Posted by Bruno

What surprises me is that none of these neighborhoods have started a vigilante group yet.
I realize it's against the law, and it would cause a smurf storm if it ever got out.

But if the situation is so bad that you are living in a war zone and your kids are in danger, and the law can't protect you anymore, and the law furthermore only seems to be intended to prevent you from defending yourself, ...
At some point, enough is enough.

Man what a good thread, I have to agree with you Bruno, the nieghborhood watch group needs to become the nieghborhood safety committee. I remember a few times in my life people have fallen downstairs or something similar and when the authorities show up nobody knows what happened, but for some reason the social climate would cool down shortly after one of these incidents.

Originally Posted by Rajagra

the problem is not that kids are carrying knives, it is that kids know that they can literally get away with murder and the law will not punish them - they are "below the age of criminal responsibility."
Aaaargh. Rant over.

"You gotta keep'em separated
Hey, they don't pay no mind
If you're under 18 you won't be doing any time
Hey, come out and play" --The Offspring, "Come out and play"

I'm another one who thinks arming the general populace is a good idea. I'm from Texas, where many adults (and kids, too, out in the country) carry guns and it's considered completely normal. Heinlein was right, though... people tend to be very polite 'round these parts

During my first patrol on a submarine, one of the crew was discovered with pictures of the wife of a shipmate. It was learned the guy stole the woman's pictures from her husband's locker. The thief was just a little misguided. You can make a safe bet that every sailor is carrying a knife. This guy should have thought about that before he went into another man's locker, nevermind to swipe something so personal, so irreplacable. The thief was brought from Crew's Berthing up to the Control Room. He was very close to dead. Even though the trip was upstairs, that guy somehow managed to fall down the stairs, several times. Oddly, not one cut or stab wound was found on the man.

What's my point? It is to me obvious that the knife is not the issue. I always carry a knife but it would be one of my last choices as a weapon. I was a bouncer in a busy seaport bar. I'd much rather have a pool cue than a pocketknife.

So people in the UK don't know how to remove a boning knife or a meat cleaver from their kitchen?