Honor killing and the difference in cultures.

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02-20-2009, 01:51 PM
jnich67

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmueller8

Jockeys; this is a very astute assessment! I can't say I agree with you on the whole; but, it's a hell of a good thought!

You know; I can sort of see the Muslim culture spreading out to the greater Eurasian Continent and Africa in 50 years or so. Mind China's stance on Muslims is not good, Japan seems to be acting against “Islamization” but its efforts may be too little too late ref a , and Russia will do what it what it has to, to protect itself, but the rest of the area is in real danger of loosing their "identities" as nations.

Al right Jockeys! For the first time in my life I will agree and say that: "We should not have meddled!" I think it started in Kosovo by our interference between the Albanians and the Serbians.... I was there and I did my homework. The KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) was Muslim, founded by Adem Jashari ref b so by meddling with the natural balances; perhaps, we emboldened the “Islamization” of the world!

"We should not have meddled!" Thought I'd never agree on this one... dammit Jockeys!:thinking:

But...when is it "meddling" and when is it defending your national interests? If the Taliban is harboring people or groups who have attacked you, is going after them meddling? Is supporting an ally (say, Israel or South Korea) meddling? Is maintaining reasonable access to oil for us and our allies meddling? I'm not saying what our specific policies should be on such issues. I'm just trying to say it's a fine line between meddling and defending your interests.

It's increasingly difficult to be "isolationist" (not saying anyone here is advocating isolationism-but as an extreme course,etc) in today's world (for the last century, really). Sometimes, not meddling gets us into a bigger, more destructive war down the road. We have interests all over the world - some are more legit than others, and this is what brings us into conflict with "them" :rolleyes: It gets tricky. :thinking:

Jordan
02-20-2009, 02:21 PM
JimmyHAD

It is hard to see genocide taking place on the other side of the world and stand by and do nothing. Harder still to send our own over there and see them killed and maimed trying to help. I would tend to the isolationist stance in terms of the Islamic extremists. Go after the al quaida and seek, find and destroy on an individual basis.

The scary thing is that now there are nuclear weapons in Pakistan, a Muslim country with a weak government and a sizable part of the population that would celebrate using them on the USA and it's allies. I don't think we can afford not to be in the game doing what we have to do to defeat them in any way we can. You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs and all of that.
02-20-2009, 02:24 PM
jnich67

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

It is hard to see genocide taking place on the other side of the world and stand by and do nothing. Harder still to send our own over there and see them killed and maimed trying to help. I would tend to the isolationist stance in terms of the Islamic extremists. Go after the al quaida and seek, find and destroy on an individual basis.

The scary thing is that now there are nuclear weapons in Pakistan, a Muslim country with a weak government and a sizable part of the population that would celebrate using them on the USA and it's allies. I don't think we can afford not to be in the game doing what we have to do to defeat them in any way we can. You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs and all of that.

And now it looks like Iran is closer to a bomb than the UN had previously thought.

Joran
02-20-2009, 03:08 PM
jockeys

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmueller8

"We should not have meddled!" Thought I'd never agree on this one... dammit Jockeys!:thinking:

you needn't sound so surprised :-)
02-20-2009, 05:05 PM
xman

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnich67

And now it looks like Iran is closer to a bomb than the UN had previously thought.

Wave good-bye to Israel.
02-20-2009, 05:06 PM
sparq

Quote:

Originally Posted by xman

Wave good-bye to Israel.

Wave good-bye to the whole Middle East.
02-20-2009, 05:21 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparq

Wave good-bye to the whole Middle East.

To the world as we know it.
02-20-2009, 05:27 PM
xman

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

To the world as we know it.

That already started in 1945.
02-20-2009, 05:36 PM
sparq

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmueller8

"We should not have meddled!" Thought I'd never agree on this one... dammit Jockeys!:thinking:

The meddling started with the first barrel of oil that we bought from them. We are now paying the price for opening that Pandora's box. :shrug:
02-20-2009, 06:53 PM
jmueller8

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnich67

But...when is it "meddling" and when is it defending your national interests? If the Taliban is harboring people or groups who have attacked you, is going after them meddling? Is supporting an ally (say, Israel or South Korea) meddling? Is maintaining reasonable access to oil for us and our allies meddling? I'm not saying what our specific policies should be on such issues. I'm just trying to say it's a fine line between meddling and defending your interests.

Nah; what I meant was: because we "butted in" with Kosovo, we more or less paved the way for its “Islamization” and very well could have emboldened the movement.

Because we took out Hussein Iraq is a mess and all the sects (my new phrase) are at war. It would have happened sooner or later as is the "natural" course; but, we did egg it on. I agree that we killed an evil man and saved, perhaps, millions of innocent people from horrific deaths; but, it was a war for the Iraqis to fight, I think. What will their freedoms mean to them! We're telling them what they want and need; but it will never be truly theirs until they "want" it for themselves. It's just like your doctor telling you to exercise, eat well, and take care of yourself! You'll say ok and you might give it an earnest attempt, but, until you really want it or need it (generally by a heart attack) you'll never really work to make it happen and you won't appreciate it! Guess where I was last weekend to cause such an epiphany!

It would be comparable to France fighting our American independence from Britain and then dictating the outcome of the Civil War based on fairness. Perhaps; America would not be the great nation that it is today had we not fought, worked, and earned our own independence!

Israel and South Korea have formed their governments and therefore need help protecting themselves which I wholeheartedly support! I'm not saying that unformed or developing governments are not good enough; however, we should let the "people" decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnich67

It's increasingly difficult to be "isolationist" (not saying anyone here is advocating isolationism-but as an extreme course,etc) in today's world (for the last century, really). Sometimes, not meddling gets us into a bigger, more destructive war down the road. We have interests all over the world - some are more legit than others, and this is what brings us into conflict with "them" :rolleyes: It gets tricky. :thinking:

Jordan

I agree with you on this aspect.
Jeff

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