Thread: For An Intelligent Conversation On Spirituality/Religion

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

No, what you believe a true christian to be will say that.

My definition of a true Christian is someone who tries to follow Christ. No matter what he believes that Christ taught.

That's where the word Christian comes from. From trying to be like christ. Don't turn it into "if you don't believe EVERY word of the bilble you're not a christian."

Believing the bible might make you a biblican.....not a christian.

I like that Alex but I'm not sure the fundamentalist Christians will agree with you. For example, regarding the Bible Paco just said, "It's either all true or not worth the paper it's written on."

Originally Posted by joesixpack

There are many (most in fact) who are neither hostile nor disrespectful of others' beliefs.

It's true. I saw one just yesterday, eating egg salad and drinking lemonade, with Santa Claus, a unicorn and a chupacabra.

Originally Posted by jockeys

It's true. I saw one just yesterday, eating egg salad and drinking lemonade, with Santa Claus, a unicorn and a chupacabra.

Hey now, don't act like they don't exist (respectful christians, i.e.). There are plenty out there. You simply remember the rude, vocal and bombastic ones. This is called "confirmation bias".

The fact that your neighbors haven't shown up at your door with pitchforks and torches is proof enough that the majority don't get their dander up over your atheism.

Usually the only ones that worry about knocking your door down and assaulting your soul with fire and brimstone are maybe 20% of the population of proclaimed "christians".

As for myself, I've found that people are much more interested in a proposal of love than death. Does that mean I don't believe in "fire and brimstone"? No, I do. I just don't think you need to scare people into faith.

Originally Posted by jockeys

It's true. I saw one just yesterday, eating egg salad and drinking lemonade, with Santa Claus, a unicorn and a chupacabra.

And you're discussing with some on your favorite shaving forum today. Come on, friend, all of us aren't trying to dump you in a lake of fire. Jonathan Edwards did a lot of damage with his sermon. If God was like that, I wouldn't believe in him either.
I can see how you would be cynical, as many of the folk who profess Christianity are hateful. But isn't the same thing true of most groups, religious or secular? I've been teaching Frederick Douglass' autobiography this week, and he noted that the most wicked slaveholders were religious, but he did not take this as a blanket condemnation of religion. Some people are jerks, and they like to think God is, too. So, if I could add to the forum my statement of faith, let it be GOD IS NOT A JERK.

Here is a capsule bio pf Bart Ehrman in the Wiki. He is well worth reading. He began as a fundamentalist Christian and is now an agnostic. He is also a noted biblical scholar.

Originally Posted by icedog

I don't understand your logic. How does one's conscious decision to deny the existence of a supreme being make them any less knowledgeable about anything?

Because to deny the possibility or 100% accept the possibility of something that is infalsifiable means you're closing your mind to the other view points and possibilities which could be equally as valid or perhaps even more so.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I find it surprising how frequently and with what ferver various sects of "christians" denounce one another for not following the "true" teachings of Jesus. It seems minor differences (from the point of view of a non-christian, at least) create horrible schisms and even wars.

I don't want to paint all christians with the same broad brush. There are many (most in fact) who are neither hostile nor disrespectful of others' beliefs.

It is sad that this is true and a fact I struggled with in my path to Christ and made me understand why so many rebuke religion. This very attitude pushed me away for years.

I found Christ again by way of those who do not push, but who live their life as a silent witness, my Amish, Mennonite and Brethren friends over the past 20 years. I try to do the same via my storefront, a simple message each day that may speak to those searching. You are free to believe what you wish, and I believe what I do. I am not threatened by other's beliefs, rather I admire their convictions. Do what you want, but believe in what you do. Blindly following something is simply not good enough. I did that for years and it was not good enough.

One day I finally asked Jesus to accept me and that I was a sinner. Everything changed. Most of my vices and weaknesses vanished. While I did not intend to sin, things would happen. Now those things that just happened give me no pleasure, and give me no want to even do any longer. It is hard to explain but something in side just changed. I truely feel I cast off the old man and put on the new.

It took me a while to be comfortable sharing my faith and my church typically strives for us to witness to others. I cannot just approach someone and push my faith so do it in the same way that won my heart. Quietly and by my actions, not by words, not by pushing.

Having faith does cost us something. There are friends who will reject you, there are those who will argue faith or the bible with you, their are people who will probably avoid my business because I profess my faith on my pages, there are changes I made at my career because of my faith that may cost me in my pocket and my wordly future. It is easy to believe in things that cost you nothing, it is another to believe even when it costs you a lot. One needs to decide which master he will serve. I try to be in this word but not of this world.

Is the bible inerrant? For many Christian faiths one must accept that, mine, the Church of the Brethren (Dunkers) accepts that the bible is God's Word but that it was written by man. It could contain errors but we cannot reject it as it does also contain the truth. We read and we pray for discernment each day that we will follow the truth and not the errors, we strive to understand the mind of Jesus. We follow God's Word, not just the Scriptures, there IS a difference.

This is an interesting thread. A please understand that while I have my beliefs and have stated them here, and many of you have yours, it would be wrong for any of us to judge any others.

Thanks,
Tony

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Hey now, don't act like they don't exist (respectful christians, i.e.). There are plenty out there. You simply remember the rude, vocal and bombastic ones. This is called "confirmation bias".

The fact that your neighbors haven't shown up at your door with pitchforks and torches is proof enough that the majority don't get their dander up over your atheism.

1. in point of fact, i've never met one IRL. they seem to exist on this forum. maybe it's a regional thing?
2. no, my neighbors just refuse to talk to me. but i did once get punched in the face for saying i didn't believe in God, does that count?

Originally Posted by norman931

And you're discussing with some on your favorite shaving forum today. Come on, friend, all of us aren't trying to dump you in a lake of fire. Jonathan Edwards did a lot of damage with his sermon. If God was like that, I wouldn't believe in him either.
I can see how you would be cynical, as many of the folk who profess Christianity are hateful. But isn't the same thing true of most groups, religious or secular?

1. as mentioned above, never met one IRL. have met some on the forum. maybe they'll migrate to Texas someday.
2. Jonathan Edwards was a giant douchebag, and has hurt Christianity, membership-wise, more than anyone except St. Augustine, imho. as Ghandi once said: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Originally Posted by paco

Does being a minority make me either correct or incorrect.

They are unrelated. However being a minority has implications on interactions with others.

Originally Posted by paco

If we're speaking logic would it not be better for me to die believing there is a God and be wrong and lose nothing, than to not believe be wrong , die , and lose everything ?

as jockeys pointed out it's a cost to benefit analysis you are doing for yourself and everybody else should do on their own as well. this argument was published in this form in 1670, but it doesn't mean that it wasn't used before than.