Thread: For An Intelligent Conversation On Spirituality/Religion

Originally Posted by paco

This is where the difficulty comes in. A Christian believes the Bible is the truth and if made to say anything other than what it says'[IN CONTEXT], is bending the truth.

I would take issue with that statement. While most Christians may agree with you, there are many Christians who do not take the bible as the literal truth. Some believe that parts of it are downright wrong.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I would take issue with that statement. While most Christians may agree with you, there are many Christians who do not take the bible as the literal truth. Some believe that parts of it are downright wrong.

Again i must say they are only professing to be christian because saying it is not the truth would be calling their God a LIAR. See 2 Timothy 3:16
and a Christian believes his GOD.

Last bit of insite, and this is not singling out anyone here just a general statement:

FOR THOSE WHO WON'T BELIEVE THERE IS NO EXPLANATION; FOR THOSE WHO DO NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY.

Originally Posted by paco

Again i must say they are only professing to be christian because saying it is not the truth would be calling their God a LIAR. See 2 Timothy 3:16
and a Christian believes his GOD.

This is called the "No true Scotsman" or the Self sealing fallacy. (No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) You're judging "Christians" by your own definition. Many Christians have a different definition, some that would even exclude you.

Another problem is that you're arguing that the Bible supports it's own infalibility, yet another christian who feels the Bible may be in error couldn't accept that assertion.

Here's something else to think on. Consider these two statements; A)"the Bible is either all true, or it's not", & B)"the Bible is either all true, or it's all false". These two statements are not the same. In the case of "A", there is still the possibility of some of the bible being true, though some of it is false. Statement "B" says that if one thing in the bible is false, it negates the truth of every other statement in there. I think many Christians would agree with statement "A", that if something in the bible were shown to be wrong, it would not really undermine their faith. Would it undermine yours?

Originally Posted by joesixpack

This is called the "No true Scotsman" or the Self sealing fallacy. (No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) You're judging "Christians" by your own definition. Many Christians have a different definition, some that would even exclude you.


The problem is that you're arguing that the Bible supports it's own infalibility, yet another christian who feels the Bible may be in error couldn't accept that assertion.

Here's something else to think on. Consider these two statements; A)"the Bible is either all true, or it's not", & B)"the Bible is either all true, or it's all false". These two statements are not the same. In the case of "A", there is still the possibility of some of the bible being true, though some of it is false. Statement "B" says that if one thing in the bible is false, it negates the truth of every other statement in there. I think many Christians would agree with statement "A", that if something in the bible were shown to be wrong, it would not really undermine their faith. Would it undermine yours?

I would have to say YES because then my Infallable GOD would be fallible, however with all the talk of possible mistakes then the showing of something it states as being incorrect may not reflect the author but maybe the translator.

So my point iS being made from the view that the ORIGINAL TEXTS were the inerent word of God as stated here: 2 Peter 2 :20-21 ²⁰But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, ²¹for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Now to accept this one must believe in God and His Word. again FOR THOSE WHO WON'T BELIEVE IN GOD NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE ; AND FOR THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY.

Originally Posted by paco

So my point iS being made from the view that the ORIGINAL TEXTS were the inerent word of God as stated here: 2 Peter 2 :20-21

What if the unfaillability part is a mistake that is not present in the original? You will be completely wrong and dogma can't get you back on the right track at all.

Originally Posted by gugi

What if the unfaillability part is a mistake that is not present in the original? You will be completely wrong and dogma can't get you back on the right track at all.

Did you not read the last statement of the post?

Originally Posted by paco

Did you not read the last statement of the post?

I did, but it sounded like an end of all discussions. Basically it postulates "There is no reason to this.".

I'm just tired and entertaining myself with basic logic. You can believe anything you like, just as I can believe anything I like. But while doing so it's still interesting to me to learn of your worldview. I hope you don't mind - seemed to me like you don't since you keep posting your thoughts.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

This is called the "No true Scotsman" or the Self sealing fallacy. (No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) You're judging "Christians" by your own definition. Many Christians have a different definition, some that would even exclude you.

Another problem is that you're arguing that the Bible supports it's own infalibility, yet another christian who feels the Bible may be in error couldn't accept that assertion.

Here's something else to think on. Consider these two statements; A)"the Bible is either all true, or it's not", & B)"the Bible is either all true, or it's all false". These two statements are not the same. In the case of "A", there is still the possibility of some of the bible being true, though some of it is false. Statement "B" says that if one thing in the bible is false, it negates the truth of every other statement in there. I think many Christians would agree with statement "A", that if something in the bible were shown to be wrong, it would not really undermine their faith. Would it undermine yours?

No, I defer to my God's Word believing HIM to be all knowing and infallible.