Thread: How is this even a supreme court case?

Originally Posted by jockeys

federal PMITA prison.

LOL. Conjugal visits? Mmmm. Not that I know of. Y'know, minimum-security prison is no picnic. I have a client in there right now. He says the trick is: kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch. Then everything will be all right. W-Why do you ask, anyway?

Originally Posted by sicboater

Please, keep your pity. We'll be fine I promise.
So much fun.

-Rob

If strip searching 13 year old girls in school is your definition of 'fine' then I guess you are right that you'll be fine if this is upheld

Any school has policies for dealing with things like this imo. This cannot be the first time a student was suspected of having something illegal on him. But a) imo a strip seach like this is sexual abuse, and b) it was only an ibuprofen.

EDIT: @ Rob: One of the reasons for inconveniencing the administrator personally (apart from venting frustration) would be that next time he maybe thinks twice about ordering the sexual abuse of one of his students.

It's an interesting problem. Police have rules regarding search & seizure. This case involves schools. But, how are corporations any different? If my employer wants to search my desk or the company provided vehicle, fine by me -- it's their stuff. But what about searching my briefcase, or a woman's purse? Or my jacket/coat? Or my personal vehicle? Where do we draw the line in the sand and have the Constitution provide coverage?

The 4th amendment should also apply in these cases. The school case is hopefully a first step.

My empolyment contract specifies that they can search my briefcase etc if they have reasonable cause.
If they have cause to search me, they have to call the police to do so.

Some schools have dealt with the purse backpack thing by simply not allowing them in the school or having them made of a mesh or clear plastic material. This way there is no real external problem. Jackets you say, well those are mostly put in lockers which are school property and are allowed to be searched as well as its contents. If they are not most schools will do a pat down or a pull pockets search. But Oregon is different, we have cops in our schools.

They overstepped and they are going to get a beat down for it.

Originally Posted by Bruno

My empolyment contract specifies that they can search my briefcase etc if they have reasonable cause.
If they have cause to search me, they have to call the police to do so.

it's the same for me. i also signed away my right to refuse them a search of my car, so they can search that, too. (note: I work in a secured facility and campus, so there are extenuating circumstances.)

but, i agreed to all that. i didn't have to, i could have not taken the job. the child should have refused the search and fought tooth and nail if necessary to prevent it.

this is a horrific 4th amendment violation. and sexual abuse of a minor, in my mind.

Originally Posted by Bruno

If strip searching 13 year old girls in school is your definition of 'fine' then I guess you are right that you'll be fine if this is upheld

Any school has policies for dealing with things like this imo. This cannot be the first time a student was suspected of having something illegal on him. But a) imo a strip seach like this is sexual abuse, and b) it was only an ibuprofen.

EDIT: @ Rob: One of the reasons for inconveniencing the administrator personally (apart from venting frustration) would be that next time he maybe thinks twice about ordering the sexual abuse of one of his students. Sure, why not disobey the law or take it into your own hands while expecting others to obey it? Why engender any respect for anyone while we're at it? It was this logic that incurred the event you are so angry about in the first place.

My point is this: They aren't trying the people for criminal actions in the Supreme Court. The SC doesn't deal with criminal cases. They deal exclusively with cases concerning the interpretation of the Constitution. For this, we don't require the pity of a Belgian or any one else. We will in fact be fine on our own.

And for the record, Federal PMITA prison is where these folks need to go.

Originally Posted by jockeys

it's the same for me. i also signed away my right to refuse them a search of my car, so they can search that, too. (note: I work in a secured facility and campus, so there are extenuating circumstances.)

but, i agreed to all that. i didn't have to, i could have not taken the job. the child should have refused the search and fought tooth and nail if necessary to prevent it.

this is a horrific 4th amendment violation. and sexual abuse of a minor, in my mind.

@Bruno:
See how Jockeys keeps these separate?

Watch and learn.

-Rob

I'm with Earthdawn. If it were one of my daughters I'd be in jail.

We have a Gestapo school district here in my city, sadly my house is in it's district boundaries (transfer once the girls start school). They violate kids rights all the time (I was in that district myself). And because of the way the district is run staff won't help parents that try to fight it, parents usually don't have the balls to see it through. Or, like one person I know, she didn't want to fight for her older son and have her younger son, still in school, suffer for it. because it was only a misdemeanor and wouldn't stay on his record. (without going into too much detail, kid left for lunch with friends, came back and campus cop gave him a ticket for exhibition of speed. cop was totally across campus, said he saw it through binoculars. his written reports, to school and to PD conflicted. secretary in counselors office told the mom that they had lots of problems with this officer and many complaints. asked if she'd say that for them she said no. anybody that spoke out against the district got fired).

anyways, that is just to say that many schools now go much to far in handling students. in my opinion any time they even want to do a pat down on a minor, especially a female, they need to call the parents. I can't imagine the trauma it would cause to a young girl.

We'll see what the supreme court says, after the "patriot act" nothing they do to strip human rights would surprise me. That in itself is sad.

Red

Originally Posted by sicboater

@Bruno:
See how Jockeys keeps these separate?

Watch and learn.

-Rob

I don't see. Basically he says the same thing as I.
I.e. this was a violation
This should not be allowed
They should go to PMITA prison.

It is the same thing that I said.
The only thing I said extra is that I would possibly go postal on the administrator if I saw him in person and make him miserable. Not saying that this is right. Just that it is realistic.

And I suspect that this would be true for most parents. For example, if you would hit a kid with your car and he was dead, the smartest thing to do is to get to the nearest cop and turn yourself in. If possible notify 911 first. But don't go to the parents first or wait for them, because they are likely to assault you. And then you will be hurt and they end up in legal trouble. This is a lose lose situation.
Parents tend to overreact when someone harms their kids.

Pity was perhaps not the word I should have used, but if the supreme court upholds the right of the school admins to order strip searches, then that would be a sorry situation indeed.

EDIT: A couple of years ago I would have said the same thing as you. But now that I have 2 little daughters, my views have changed somewhat on certain issues.