Thread: Do you squeeze your wife regularly?

Originally Posted by Rajagra

A biopsy is not major surgery, it is taking a small sample of tissue for testing. Sometimes it is no more than inserting a needle to take the sample.

I worked in a breast cancer unit for 8 years (not as a medic) and I heard horror stories of people who ignored extreme symptoms for a long time. I won't repeat the words, but the fact that one exact phrase has remained in my head after all this time should tell you something. It's better to check things out sooner IMO.

Most lumps are harmless. There is no harm in getting them checked out either way, other than expense. As a patient should that be your priority? Maybe so if you are in a country where you have to pay for the test, but that is not really a great argument against self examination.

But the reviewed studies also showed "There was no statistically significant difference in breast cancer mortality between the groups."

So why do breast self examination when it does NOT reduce mortality(which is what you want ot achieve) but DOES DOUBLE the rate of needless biopsies? It only gives women and their squeezing partners a false sense of security.

as far as detection goes there are more and more studies that show mammography to be ineffective and harmful due to the radiation used. the newer and better way of detection is thermography. its well known that a cancerous tumour produces excess heat, which is what the thermography detects. check it out. its totally non-invasive and painless.

the best cure for cancer is prevention. if your body is in an alkaline state rather then an acidic one cancer cannot survive. one reason is that every cancer has a parasite that goes with it, if you get rid of the parasite, the cancer will go away. i know, it sounds too easy. the parasite cannot live in an alkaline environment, but they thrive in acidic ones. if you maintain a healthy diet that includes green vegetables and low amounts of complex carbs (and i say low amounts, not NO amounts ) your body will naturally become alkaline. a good quality greens supplement will also help you to do this. what you put in your body will determine exactly how healthy your body becomes, it just makes sense.

there are also other ways of getting rid of the parasites, frequency generators can be used effectively to kill the parasites, but then you must make your body healthy enough to get rid of those parasites once they are killed.

if you want to read more check out Natural Health Information Articles and Health Newsletter by Dr. Joseph Mercola (of which i have absolutely no affiliation, he just runs a relaly great site).

Originally Posted by Kees

But the reviewed studies also showed "There was no statistically significant difference in breast cancer mortality between the groups."

So why do breast self examination when it does NOT reduce mortality(which is what you want ot achieve) but DOES DOUBLE the rate of needless biopsies? It only gives women and their squeezing partners a false sense of security.

That's a sound argument Kees!

Alright; first I had to pull up the clinical study because the abstract had too many holes. This case study was compiled from “incomplete” statistical data obtained in Shanghai,China and St. Petersburg, Russia in 1999 and 2002. The reason so many women got biopsies is because mammograms were not even offered as a diagnostic tool which would have reduced the biopsies by 70%-80% easily. This study even states that the findings are biased which really speaks a lot for the reason it was compiled in the first place not to mention that most of the trials were discontinued due to poor compliance and follow up.

As such; I’m going to consider this “case study” as nothing more than a $100,000.00 role of toilet paper and wipe myself with it!

That was a great find though Kees! I’ve poured through thousands of case studies in my days and this is defiantly W.H.O.’s material that’s directed at cutting medical costs by manipulating the control groups. The women were literally given a biopsy for every bump / lump in their breasts and I’ll wager they weren’t even anesthetized based on the fact that they discontinued the study. A report with this many holes is worthy of our backsides.[/SIZE]

So with that said and flushed; when a lump is found by the patient or the physician the patient gets a mammogram. Should the doctor and the radiologist feel the need a biopsy will ensue. (Note there is a second check in the process.) The procedure is simply a local anesthetic of lidocaine followed by a needle aspiration of the questioned tissue. The pathologist then examines the tissue and reports back to the primary physician. Regardless of whether we (the husbands) or the doctor finds it... if the docs want the biopsy done it will be.

The article / toilet paper link should you feel the urge to wipe yourselves.

Good find Kees! It was an entertaining read! Now, please don't misconstrue my sarcasm. It is not remotely directed at you, just the case study. I am truly grateful for the read and it will give my old colleges a hell of a laugh!

Originally Posted by chee16

as far as detection goes there are more and more studies that show mammography to be ineffective and harmful due to the radiation used. the newer and better way of detection is thermography. its well known that a cancerous tumour produces excess heat, which is what the thermography detects. check it out. its totally non-invasive and painless.

the best cure for cancer is prevention. if your body is in an alkaline state rather then an acidic one cancer cannot survive. one reason is that every cancer has a parasite that goes with it, if you get rid of the parasite, the cancer will go away. i know, it sounds too easy. the parasite cannot live in an alkaline environment, but they thrive in acidic ones. if you maintain a healthy diet that includes green vegetables and low amounts of complex carbs (and i say low amounts, not NO amounts ) your body will naturally become alkaline. a good quality greens supplement will also help you to do this. what you put in your body will determine exactly how healthy your body becomes, it just makes sense.

there are also other ways of getting rid of the parasites, frequency generators can be used effectively to kill the parasites, but then you must make your body healthy enough to get rid of those parasites once they are killed.

if you want to read more check out Natural Health Information Articles and Health Newsletter by Dr. Joseph Mercola (of which i have absolutely no affiliation, he just runs a relaly great site).

Nice find Chee and I completely support your statements! To get the thermal imaging you are going to have to go outside “traditional medicine” because it is considered “alternative medicine” and is often not covered by insurance plans. Like everything else; it will likely be accepted by the AMA in a few years time though!

Originally Posted by Kees

But the reviewed studies also showed "There was no statistically significant difference in breast cancer mortality between the groups."

It depends what they mean by "breast cancer mortality". It sounds suspiciously like they are simply counting how many patients go on to die from the disease, irrespective of how long they live. They mention number of deaths in total which suggests that interpretation.

But breast cancer treament is mainly about extending lifespan, not so much about curing it. The normal thing to look for is 5 year survival rates.

Early detection by self-examination should extend lifespan even if it doesn't cure.

I could be wrong, maybe it is now considered normal in abstracts to assume "mortality" refers to how many die within 5 years.

Sure there are possibilities that self exams may not work, but what if your wife is one of the ones that it does work on? I heard a story from a woman that said her husband was doing his regular exam and found something almost as soon as it came up. They went and got it checked out and it was determined to be of the "bad" kind. They were able to remove it before it went anywhere. That, to me, is well worth it.

So besides Kees ... anybody else in this thread a medical doctor?

naturally YMMV but less unneeded biopsies are good.

Not a doctor, but (para)medically schooled. Got a lot of anatomy, pathology, immunology and other ololologies. I would say that self-checking is a good way of finding malign growths earlier on, if you know what to look for and what to ignore. The glands in the breast can feel like an abnormal breast lump, but they're not. If you find something, you should also get it checked out by a good doctor. Only after that can be decided which way to go (taking biopsies is already a big step I think).

The biggest problem with mammography isn't the radiation, but the pressure on the breast. This can squeeze the lump so hard that cells come off it, end up in the bloodstream and spread through the body (most likely the liver, kidneys or lungs) causing a secondary malign growth.

I find that talk about 'acidic and alkaline states of the body', quite frankly, complete nonsense. Your body's pH is strictly regulated and will deviate from it only by about 0.1. Any change that would allow for the words 'acidic' and 'alkaline' to be used, would kill you or make you SERIOUSLY ill. And parasites causing every malign growth and cancer ? Please...
There is nothing against eating a lot of vegetables and healthy foodd though. And mostly for better reasons than cancer prevention.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

The biggest problem with mammography isn't the radiation, but the pressure on the breast. This can squeeze the lump so hard that cells come off it, end up in the bloodstream and spread through the body (most likely the liver, kidneys or lungs) causing a secondary malign growth.

great point!

I am afraid you're entirely focussing on a surrogate end point (i.e. the number of biopsies). This is of course not only physician dependent but also determined by the local infrastructure.

The thing that really matters is that breast self examination does not reduce mortality.

So let me now have the last laugh at your expense!

Originally Posted by jmueller8

That's a sound argument Kees!

Alright; first I had to pull up the clinical study because the abstract had too many holes. This case study was compiled from “incomplete” statistical data obtained in Shanghai,China and St. Petersburg, Russia in 1999 and 2002. The reason so many women got biopsies is because mammograms were not even offered as a diagnostic tool which would have reduced the biopsies by 70%-80% easily. This study even states that the findings are biased which really speaks a lot for the reason it was compiled in the first place not to mention that most of the trials were discontinued due to poor compliance and follow up.

As such; I’m going to consider this “case study” as nothing more than a $100,000.00 role of toilet paper and wipe myself with it!

That was a great find though Kees! I’ve poured through thousands of case studies in my days and this is defiantly W.H.O.’s material that’s directed at cutting medical costs by manipulating the control groups. The women were literally given a biopsy for every bump / lump in their breasts and I’ll wager they weren’t even anesthetized based on the fact that they discontinued the study. A report with this many holes is worthy of our backsides.[/SIZE]

So with that said and flushed; when a lump is found by the patient or the physician the patient gets a mammogram. Should the doctor and the radiologist feel the need a biopsy will ensue. (Note there is a second check in the process.) The procedure is simply a local anesthetic of lidocaine followed by a needle aspiration of the questioned tissue. The pathologist then examines the tissue and reports back to the primary physician. Regardless of whether we (the husbands) or the doctor finds it... if the docs want the biopsy done it will be.

The article / toilet paper link should you feel the urge to wipe yourselves.

Good find Kees! It was an entertaining read! Now, please don't misconstrue my sarcasm. It is not remotely directed at you, just the case study. I am truly grateful for the read and it will give my old colleges a hell of a laugh!