Thread: Politics and Religion

Originally Posted by The0ctopus

you are kidding right?
they are whats responsible for every major war and disagreement ever!
millions die every year to no point but to promote there religious and political viewpoints.

Yes. Hence the laughing guy. Though I do not think that *all* politics and religion do is divide. I do think that they can be divisive issues. There can also be unifying factors. (Beyond just "us" vs "them".)

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Europe is no different than the US ... you can discuss politics and religion only if you avoid certain opinions and topics. For example, in Europe it is a crime to state certain facts, even if they can be proved to be true, because they are defined as hate crimes.

name 3.

First of all....I never said "europe". I said over here. And since you're all the way in Italy....that's not exaclt over here is it?

Then the whole holocaust thing...that's not stating a fact...that's being an idiot. And yes, although I think it's wrong you can be punished by law for being a moron.

And further on it's not the stating of the "facts" as you call them which are punishable. It's the way in which the facts are stated. If I'd say to a friend of mine "I don't believe the holocaust happened" (don't worry I have no doubts about that whatsoever) no-one would call the police about that. In fact the police would be asking people why they were called.

However if I were to stand up in front of a large group of people and state: "The holocaust never happened, it's a jewish conspiracy to inspire sympathy for the jews" THAT would be called inciting hatred.

It's not the stating of facts that's illegal, it's preaching against other people that's not allowed.



As for whether it's an american thing or not....I can't really say. All I can say is that it's not a dutch thing in general.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

name 3.

.

I was hoping that he could name one.

I am glad to see that things are still going civil.
Hopefully it will remain that way.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I am glad to see that things are still going civil.
Hopefully it will remain that way.

ok I'll tread lightly

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Denying the Holocaust isn't exactly stating a fact, it's more like lying. In fact, it is lying. I have known a few survivors and former American solders who were witnesses to it.

yes....
my grandfather had a fair pile of things he brought home from the war
included were 100+ pics of Jewish stick people and bodies stacked like cars in the junkyard

Originally Posted by Elliette

I would post my butter creme frosting recipe here, but anyone wanting a political debate based on the thread title would be sorely disappointed!

you my girl are what we call a "tease"
I like it.
I also like frosting
you can see where this is going
but today I'll have to settle for the recipe

Octopus, as for the Bork thread that was directed at only one or two people in particular, as I began to here murmurs of moderation due to the title

ignorance in other words
I say niggardly and someone calls me racist and contacts a mod instead of looking it up
I would think most people would be angry in that case, and rightly so

even more on topic
I discuss religion, I discuss politics
if we don't hash these things out then how do we expect people to learn?

do you talk to your kids about sex?
drugs?
drinking?

but we can't talk about an out off control government undermining our parental authority?

HOGWASH !!

these two arenas shape our lives in so many ways
we dam well better be involved or we'll be run down by them

Originally Posted by Chimensch

My original post was in response to LX Emergency, to bring him back to reality by reminding him that Europe is not all that superior in having taboos against talking about politics/religion. I alluded to certain topics without naming them because everyone knows what they are. You understood what I meant and your blood began to boil, which is why these subjects are taboo in the first place.

In all honesty, and I mean no disrespect to you, but your two posts are a good example of why talking about these subjects is taboo. You've heard certain things and you sincerely believe them to be true. You will become extremely irate with anyone that even brings them up, let alone contradicts what you know to be true.

In fact, it is very revealing that you didn't even wait to hear what I might have to say before you started talking about people "lying".

I'm not afraid to say what I think but you've already demonstrated that you can't be civil, so let's just all do ourselves a favor and admit that politics and religion ought to be taboo.

On the other hand, if you are sincerely interested, you can PM me and I will respond.

Your "facts" appear to be a little askew as 0livia had already answered the question for you, and secondly I saw no indication of Joes blood boiling as you say, and thirdly I don't think I have ever seen what could be characterized as an uncivil post authored by Joesixpack in any political thread I have ever read .

Well I was kind of on a wrong track.
Seriously I did not expect to ever meet anyone who dares to demand the right to publish the "holocaust lie". Thats a smack in the face of every victim of the nazi regime AND even of every ex nazi who had to face "reality" the hard way after the war. I by myself have been brought up by one and I've experienced directly what it meant for my grandfather to have had a weak enough character to have been mislead, having followed and having been punished for that later on. There were a lot of them who did not know better than saving their sanity by totally denying what they have seen and done. There were also a lot of them who knew they were responsible for a later generation and wised up with all the pain included that it takes to regret. Whatever they did, they were part of it and had to.
You, Chimensch were not!
So I'm so glad we have these laws and wish we could apply them more often.

there were many many more who were marched of to Russia never to be seen or heard from again

that particular holocaust doesn't get mentioned a whole lot

how many?
7 million?
10 million?
more?

I thought of the quote I wanted to finish my last post with.

Drive thy business or it will drive thee.

Yes. Ever wondered why Solingen did not produce great razors after WWII?
No more guys!

But there were also many who tried to carry on in good positions like public prosecutors, doctors, judges and the like. Luckily they are almost gone for good by now.

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

there were many many more who were marched of to Russia never to be seen or heard from again

that particular holocaust doesn't get mentioned a whole lot

how many?
7 million?
10 million?
more?

I thought of the quote I wanted to finish my last post with.

Drive thy business or it will drive thee.

Very good point!

There's no question that the holocaust perpetrated by the nazis in WW2 was one of the worst atrocities in human history, but the Russian holocaust, which was largely political, may have been much larger depending on which history book you look at, and it's very rarely mentioned by comparison.

Another thing that isn't mentioned very often about the nazi holocaust of the jews, was that it wasn't just jews. Jews, gays, minorities, political opponents, and eventually even priests. Nobody was safe.