Thread: Oklahoma Incident

Ok...time for my .02...

I have been in the US Military for almost 4 years, before that I worked for a police department in Kansas.

1.) The pharmacist is wrong, yet right. The letter of the law is very clear...you will use only the amount of force necessary to neutralize a target. Once said target is neutralized, then you cease to use force. End of story. However, I cant say I would not have reacted in a similar fashion. The only difference: I have been trained with weapons for years, and attended various military and non-military training courses for tactical shooting with every weapon system from a 9mm Beretta to a M249 Fully Automatic Machine Gun to a Real Life, No **** Grenade Launcher. I dont miss. The 2 shiny "E" tabs on my marksmanship ribbons speak that story.

2.) The .380 is a poor choice for self defense. If he needs to conceal a weapon, then he needs to suck it up and deal with the "heat" and carry a real weapon. My primary concealment weapon is a Springfield XD(M) .45 ACP loaded with 13+1 Hydrashoks. I also carry a 2nd magazine on me. My wife carries a .40 Caliber Taurus PT140 Millenium Pro. Same theory as using the right tool for the job..use the right gun for the generalized basis of why you need it: To kill people.

3.) The NAACP is garbage. Absolute garbage. I hate to sound a tad racist, but they only show their faces when a black person commits some atrocious crime, and needs bailed out. Blame the white man, Blame their environment, Blame the police, but we'll never blame these delinquent juveniles and adults who willingly intend on causing harm to innocent people. Go to hell, NAACP.

4.) 1st Degree Murder is not going to fly..but whoever said they cant be charged with anything again is wrong. He cannot be charged with 1st Degree Murder twice, but the DA can charge him with Manslaughter, or 3rd Degree Murder, or even 2nd Degree Murder. Double Jeapordy is mainly to ensure the court system doesnt get clogged up continually with the same cases being tried and re-tried for the same issue, and still not meeting said criteria for conviction or even for proceeding to trial.

5.) People who believe the police are only out to get them are ignorant asses. The police are there to maintain good order and discipline. Same reason we have MA's, and MP's in the military. They're there for your safety. Now, on the other hand, if you have had a past of ****ing them off, or commiting crimes, I can understand why you dont like them...but there is an EASY fix! Stop being an retard, and ****ing the police off. Plain and simple. Stay out of trouble. Yes, it really is THAT easy!

6.) And finally, I find this entire case to be politically driven, and a bull**** farce. I think the judge and DA should lose their license for even considering bringing this man to trial for protecting the lives of his workers and himself. This is the reason I am a Republican Anarchist. Republican First, and if that dont work, burn the mother to the ground. If you dont understand why, take a look at this case, as well as our Hypocrit-In-Chief. They bear a striking similarity: BULL****.

Thanks!

-Jeff

OK about the ammo: even if you stay with .38, aren't there things like frangible bullets, expanding bullets, or other kind of nasty things?

Originally Posted by Bruno

OK about the ammo: even if you stay with .38, aren't there things like frangible bullets, expanding bullets, or other kind of nasty things?

I'm sure I'll be corrected quickly if I'm wrong, but most calibers of ammunition are available with a variety of different bullets, and some are available with a fairly big variety of powder loads in the round.

So, you could have a solid lead round, a mushroom or hollow point round (these would break apart and make a mess) or you could have jacketed bullets which tend to tumble around in the body and do a completely different kind of terrible damage on the way through.

I don't have guns, but if I decided to carry for self defense, I'd choose the ammo to make sure that whatever I hit goes down and stays down. The reason being that if the situation is grave enough for me to actually pull the trigger, I want to do as much damage as possible.

And if the bullets hit something else like the wall, the risk of through-and-through shots is probably less because the bullet shatters.

Originally Posted by Bruno

...if I decided to carry for self defense, I'd choose the ammo to make sure that whatever I hit goes down and stays down.

Availability of different kinds of ammunition is different even from state to state in the US, but if it were available, that would probably be a hollow point round.

They're just what they sound like. The front of the actual bullet is hollowed out, so that when it hit's something, it spreads open and breaks apart.

Breaking apart causes the bullet to transfer it's energy to the target more rapidly. Rapid transfer of energy = massive damage and stopping power. A round that stays together and passes completely through the target doesn't transfer all of it's energy to the target, so even if it's a fatal shot, it would be less painful, and might not drop them instantly unless you hit the heart or brain.

They also offer the added benefit of being much less likely to enter one side and exit the other, which means you are less likely to accidentally kill somebody across the street behind your target.


Lastly, I agree with you 100%. I am blessed to live in an area where carrying a firearm for defense is not necessary, but if I needed one, I'd keep it loaded with hollow points, and I'd either keep it holstered, or empty every round into the person I was defending myself from.

Originally Posted by usnavysubs

The NAACP is garbage. Absolute garbage. I hate to sound a tad racist, but they only show their faces when a black person commits some atrocious crime, and needs bailed out. Blame the white man, Blame their environment, Blame the police, but we'll never blame these delinquent juveniles and adults who willingly intend on causing harm to innocent people. Go to hell, NAACP.

I actually come from an interracial family, and 5 of my 6 siblings are black. (long story)

Anyway, I, and at least half of my siblings would actually agree with you. Once upon a time, affirmative action, and organizations like the NAACP were desperately needed to level the field after generations of widely accepted and legally sanctioned racism.

However, I have a hard time imagining anybody being able to keep a straight face while saying that the NAACP is still relevant when this nation just elected a black president.

A generation ago, it would have never happened.

This generation, we can elect a minority as president, but it's still a big deal.

In another generation, nobody will even care what the president's skin color is.

Personally, I think that's a VERY good thing.

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

I actually come from an interracial family, and 5 of my 6 siblings are black. (long story)

Anyway, I, and at least half of my siblings would actually agree with you. Once upon a time, affirmative action, and organizations like the NAACP were desperately needed to level the field after generations of widely accepted and legally sanctioned racism.

However, I have a hard time imagining anybody being able to keep a straight face while saying that the NAACP is still relevant when this nation just elected a black president.

A generation ago, it would have never happened.

This generation, we can elect a minority as president, but it's still a big deal.

In another generation, nobody will even care what the president's skin color is.

Personally, I think that's a VERY good thing.

I personally still cant wrap my head around the following things:

1.) A man is a man, and a woman is a woman. Irregardless of your skin color. Period. Why do we always bring race into everything, especially in the media?

2.) Why is Barack Obama considered America's first African American President? He is not even 1/2 black. I would refer to Barack Obama as a "Heinz 57", simply because I dont think that even he knows his own lineage.

3.) Why is the above statement even relevant to the news media?


I am sorry... I am a white republican, and I didnt vote for Obama, not for his skin color, but for his policies. However, I would have been the first person in the election booth line to elect Colin Powell.

But back to topic... I feel the NAACP is just a bull**** organization. Makes me want to form the NAAWP... Too bad I'd be dead before I could help anyone.


On the topic of ammunition: I carry Hydrashoks for one purpose: The round petals out, and acts as a really nasty steel flower, and spins its way through all the vital organs of a person's body. It also will not soar through walls, as it is hollow point. If you intend on protecting your home (made of drywall, etc) then you need to utilize a hollow point round. Simply for the fact that a Full Metal Jacket will rip through enough walls for the round to escape your house, thus putting loved ones and innocent bystanders at risk. Also, the hollow points typically break apart inside the body, so instead of just 1 projectile assaulting your assailant's kidneys, it has pieces going for the stomach, lungs, and heart tissue as well. Real nasty

Originally Posted by usnavysubs

It also will not soar through walls, as it is hollow point. If you intend on protecting your home (made of drywall, etc) then you need to utilize a hollow point round. Simply for the fact that a Full Metal Jacket will rip through enough walls for the round to escape your house, thus putting loved ones and innocent bystanders at risk.

guess again.
The Box O' Truth #1 - The Original Box O' Truth - Page 1

Hydrashocks from a .45acp 1911 will go thru 7 or 8 layers of drywall. the point gets clogged by the gypsum and they don't slow down or tumble or expand hardly at all.

Thanks Jockey, I was going to post that about hollow points going through walls.

Glaser safety slugs. expensive, but they are designed so they won't go through walls AND they do major tissue damage. they have pellets inside the cavity, capped by some blue plastic. i think they make them in most chamberings, I had some for my 380, 38, 44.

Red

I would never punch someone in the face and be surprised if they hit me back.

Following that logic, if I were to point a gun at someone I would fully expect them to shoot me if given the chance.

As for whether or not they intended to use it, try pointing a pistol at a LEO and see how far you get. They've shot kits with cap guns. Not being critical for them doing it, it just highlights the fact that you have less than a second to make the call. I don't care what your intentions were: point a gun at me and I WILL shoot you.

With regards to him "finishing the job", I think ridiculous laws are already shoved down our throats to an insane degree. A lot of our current laws try to shade in way too much gray in areas that really should be black and white. Looking at it purely from my personal moral standpoint...the punk got what he deserved. If he's willing to stick a gun in someone's face as a teenager, who knows what he'd have graduated to in a couple more years. That pharmacist probably saved someone else from a mugging.

Side note: those Glaser rounds can be had pretty cheap at most gun shows. When I lived in Denver in an apartment that's what I kept my Kimber loaded with.