Thread: Homeopathy -- fact or trifle?

My problem with most homeopathy/herbalism are many. Here aresome off the top of my head.

There is so little well done science that it is really hard to draw any conclusions at all. Often the research has no control group.

There is seldom any data on the side effects of the treatment.

There is no standardization of product. Method of processing can dramatically affect the chemical composition of an herbal product. Since we don't know what the active ingredient is, we can't know which processing method works best. (this is better in Germany where this is better regulated).

If the benefit is present in the fresh product, does it degrade over time

By the time most "natural" products reach the consumer it has been processed so much that it isn't natural anymore.

Many ingredients come from places where insecticides on crops for human consumption is poorly regulated. Same goes for sanitation.

So, basically you are at the mercy of the ethics of the producing company.

I would rather trust the FDA.

Using herbs and plants is a no brainer. Long before we had "modern" medicine people were treated with herbal remedies and in fact many of our modern medicines come from plant extracts. What has given herbal remidies a bad name are charletons who claim they will cure everything and others who combine ingredients and claim miraculous outcomes and many of these things are actually harmful. If you want to look at herbal treatments you need to look at the things that have been used over the past few thousand years over and over again.

Homeopathy is totally different the idea you can take an offending item and take it in small quantities and your body will fight off the illness.

Over the years many studies have been done and the results were clear that Homeopathy had no positive result. When offered to take part in scientific studies homeopthy practicioners have always refused.

As far as xtls and stuff like these bracelets they sell those are out and out fraud.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

My wife gets results with some homeopathic stuff she uses on her eye once in a great while

Here's what's in it - or what's not in it, if you understand dilution:

Belladonna 6X (one part in one million), Euphrasia 6X, Hepar Sulphuris 12X (one part in one trillion)

The remaining 999,997.999998 parts per million are a combination of Borate Buffer , Purified Water , Silver Sulphate - as Preservative , and Sodium Nitrate. Maybe a chemist can tell me what that means and why it matters if they are inactive

Interesting to me is that if "like cures like" then why is euphrasia (an ingredient thought to be good for the eyes) included along with belladonna (an ingredient which is toxic) if it is a homeopathic solution?

At any rate like I said before, using this helps my wife's eyes when they're red and irritated. Maybe the water is the active ingredient, helping to flush out an irritant. Maybe it is a placebo effect, or maybe just a matter of time involved; I don't know - whatever it is, at least there's a positive overall result after she takes it

(I am still tempted to simply refill the used bottle with distiled water and pretend it's the same thing, but I can't quite bring myself to treat my wife as a medicinal guinea pig without her consent )

As most of you know. I lost part of my pinkie in a work related accident. Well, I am happy to report that through the use of homeopathic remedies my pinkie grew back

Seriously though, the point of homeopathy is to get the body to react to the minute amount of "bad stuff" put in your body so that the immune system will cure itself. I like the philosophy, however, I think most homeopaths are hucksters and have no real clue about what they are doing and the ones that do will not hesitate to send you to the hospital when required.

My Sister is a cnhp( Certified Natural Health Professional) . Herb's are where most of modern day medicine started. Can't sleep and don't want to take a prescription sleep aid? Try Valerian root.

I think the problem most have with trusting herbs is the notion of some old granny woman stirring together medicine in a big cauldren, but how many of us hesitate to grab a frond from an Aloe Vera plant if you've got a minor burn? I also know from reading the forum that alot of us use Alum. But how many realize that it is an herb? Granted there are huxsters out there, but not all herbalists are, some do have their head on straight.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Here's what's in it - or what's not in it, if you understand dilution:

Belladonna 6X (one part in one million), Euphrasia 6X, Hepar Sulphuris 12X (one part in one trillion)

the density of water is 1g/ml, and with water being 18g/mol, there are Na/18=3.34 x 10^(22) water molecules in each ml

A droplet I guestimate at about 1/10 ml, but let's be really conservative and take 1/100ml i.e. 100 droplets in 1ml. This means that each of them has 3.34 x 10^(20) molecules of water.

My understanding from Lee's numbers is that those are log base ten, and trillion and billion are the typical factors.

So even at trillion dilution, in each droplet you'd still have about 3.34x10^8 of the active ingredient. Let's assume that the active ingredient wasn't 100% pure to start with, but was only 1% active molecules and 99% inactive stuff.
That's still over 3 million active molecules in each droplet. And 3 million billions for the 6x diluted ones.

The question is does this have an effect? I don't know what to compare to, but the closest thing that comes to mind is conception. There are millions of sperms and one egg only and they produce and effect most of the time. Of course they're each made of many many molecules.

I just don't know much biochemistry to know what numbers can have an effect, but I certainly can compute the actual numbers and they are very measurable.

For homework may be you guys can compute how many molecules of Caligula's urine you drink every time you have a drink. I'll give you something nice if you can come up with the correct answer within say a minute.

Originally Posted by gugi

For homework may be you guys can compute how many molecules of Caligula's urine you drink every time you have a drink. I'll give you something nice if you can come up with the correct answer within say a minute.

Fewer than you do, as I don't drink nearly as much

Why are so many so sure science is ALWAYS correct?

Originally Posted by paco

Why are so many so sure science is ALWAYS correct?

Because science admits it is wrong when a better theory comes along. Unlike the alternatives.

And it isn't about being correct, it's about having the best model of how things work we can come up with. Newton's laws of motion don't apply so well under all circumstances, but they were good enough to put men on the moon.

If the Bible offered the most consistent explanation of things, it would be labelled a scientific journal.

curative powers or no... that video was hilarious