One related to the joke thread controversy

[gratewhitehuntr]

way too much thinking going on here

"The best remedy for the disposition of a scoundrel is hanging."
The World According to GW, chapter 1 v 22

[jockeys]

capital punishment goes beyond morality or revenge. it is simply the fulfillment of the social contract; it is the final deterrent.

in china there is a saying, sha yi jing bai... roughly translated it means "kill one to warn one hundred" socrates understood this as well when he said, "society must fear the desperate man" e.g. someone with nothing to lose can't be controlled because the social contract cannot take anything from him.

[JimmyHAD]

capital punishment goes beyond morality or revenge. it is simply the fulfillment of the social contract; it is the final deterrent.

in china there is a saying, sha yi jing bai... roughly translated it means "kill one to warn one hundred" socrates understood this as well when he said, "society must fear the desperate man" e.g. someone with nothing to lose can't be controlled because the social contract cannot take anything from him.

That is one aspect. Another is that closure that Wildtim was talking about. As a kid I would see someone who was quadriplegic and think that I would rather be dead. Then I see someone like Steven Hawking or Christopher Reed who in spite of the handicap makes the best of it and more.

So even imprisoned for life human beings adapt and enjoy life to some extent. I recall Caryl Chessman, the "red light bandit", who became a writer and an artist while incarcerated awaiting execution. Why should someone like the BTK killer feel sunshine and see the seasons change while his victim's lives were heartlessly snuffed out ?

I go along with Judge Roy Bean, "The Law West Of The Pecos" sentencing of a murderer,"You have been tried by twelve good men and true, not of your peers but as high above you as heaven is of hell, and they have said you are guilty.

Time will pass and seasons will come and go. Spring with its wavin’ green grass and heaps of sweet-smellin’ flowers on every hill and in every dale. Then sultry Summer, with her shimmerin’ heat-waves on the baked horizon.

And Fall, with her yeller harvest moon and the hills growin’ brown and golden under a sinkin’ sun. And finally Winter, with its bitin’, whinin’ wind, and all the land will be mantled with snow.

But you won’t be here to see any of ‘em; not by a damn sight, because it’s the order of this court that you be took to the nearest tree and hanged by the neck til you’re dead, dead, dead."

[goshawk]

Theodore Bundy

Jimmy

Are you familiar with the expression " Hard cases make bad law " ?
Ted Bundy is the worst precident you could cite as justification for the death penalty; many people who have commited murder haven't behaved anything like as heinously as Bundy did, and don't deserve to be lumped in with him.
God help us if we make him the standard for punishing homicide.

In any case simply saying the name Ted Bundy goes no distance to addressing the very real concern of executing the wrong person.

goshawk

[JimmyHAD]

Jimmy

Are you familiar with the expression " Hard cases make bad law " ?
Ted Bundy is the worst precident you could cite as justification for the death penalty; many people who have commited murder haven't behaved as heinously as Bundy did, and don't deseerve to be lumped in with him.
God help us if we make him the standard for punishing homicide.

In any case simply saying the name Ted Bundy goes no distance to addressing the very real concern of executing the wrong person.

goshawk

No one wants to see the wrong person executed or imprisoned for a crime that they didn't commit. Throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't an ideal answer either. I think that if it is proven that police and or prosecutors knowingly withhold exculpatory evidence or in any other way aid a wrongful conviction that they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[goshawk]

I think that if it is proven that police and or prosecutors knowingly withhold exculpatory evidence or in any other way aid a wrongful conviction that they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

You've made my point. Punish them as hard as you like, put them to death even, and it wont bring back the person who was executed wrongly. And we still haven't addressed the problem of simple human error.

Best Regards

goshawk

[hoglahoo]

Innocent people are going to be killed with or without the death penalty. Now does the death penalty reduce that number or raise it? I think that is an important question to answer.

Wait... Is this a death penalty thread?

[smokelaw1]

Innocent people are going to be killed with or without the death penalty. Now does the death penalty reduce that number or raise it? I think that is an important question to answer.

Wait... Is this a death penalty thread?

I am not sure, but I think studies have shown that the deterence effect is nonexistent. I'll see if I can find any info.

And no, this is a gay-marriage thread. Let's try to stay on topic.

[goshawk]

Innocent people are going to be killed with or without the death penalty. Now does the death penalty reduce that number or raise it? I think that is an important question to answer.

Wait... Is this a death penalty thread?

I think the important question is "Who are they going to be killed by?"
If the answer is "us", then we had better make sure that we are absolutely justified.
I dont think we can rise to that standard.

As for doing down the hypothetical terrorist, absolutely. You're justified in using any force necessary to protect your family.

Put me in the "BANG" category.

goshawk

[Rajagra]

I think the important question is "Who are they going to be killed by?"
If the answer is "us", then we had better make sure that we are absolutely justified.
I dont think we can rise to that standard.

I don't think that freeing murderers to kill more people shows any sign of ethical superiority. Most lifers do not spend the rest of their lives in jail, and too many of those released kill again.

The number of people murdered by killers who have been released from prison far exceeds the number of people wrongly executed for murder.

Society should take responsibility and act in whatever way minimises loss of innocent life - no matter how uncomfortable we feel about it. It's a numbers game, and avoiding that fact is moral cowardice.