Thread: Opinions On Gov. Sponsored Health Care Outside of the USA

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Its interesting to note that every time you guys mention having to pay into the system the amounts are about the same as what I pay with my employer provided plan and the costs of that plan are similar as well.

With the difference that in the US a large number of people are not covered. In the US, if you lose your job, you also lose your insurance.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

With the difference that in the US a large number of people are not covered. In the US, if you lose your job, you also lose your insurance.

I have problems with that arrangement and I'll tell you why. When I was 19 I studied at an university and had a small job in the evening (yearly contract). Untill I contracted cancer. I couldn't work and my contract was eventually not renewed.

The medical bills come no matter you have a job or not. And if you are really sick, you just can't work. I'm quite happy that wasn't a problem for me because I was insured no matter what. Nowadays I'm 26 and one year away of finishing my study and already have joboffers. Future's looking brighter by the day.

I'm not that familiair with the healthcare system in the US, but I assume I would have lost everything (including my life) by no fault of my own. Or is this incorrect? I even doubt a basic HMO would have covered my expenses.

Originally Posted by Oxi

I have problems with that arrangement and I'll tell you why. When I was 19 I studied at an university and had a small job in the evening (yearly contract). Untill I contracted cancer. I couldn't work and my contract was eventually not renewed.

The medical bills come no matter you have a job or not. And if you are really sick, you just can't work. I'm quite happy that wasn't a problem for me because I was insured no matter what. Nowadays I'm 26 and one year away of finishing my study and already have joboffers. Future's looking brighter by the day.

I'm not that familiair with the healthcare system in the US, but I assume I would have lost everything (including my life) by no fault of my own. Or is this incorrect? I even doubt a basic HMO would have covered my expenses.

I don't want to speculate about what happens in a case like yours but I can tell you this:

In the United States today, of all the homes in foreclosure, half of them are there because the family was bankrupted by a major illness and almost all of them had medical insurance.

Originally Posted by Oxi

I'm not that familiair with the healthcare system in the US, but I assume I would have lost everything (including my life) by no fault of my own. Or is this incorrect? I even doubt a basic HMO would have covered my expenses.

Here in the USA if you have insurance and you are confronted by an illness like that you will be alright for as long as you insurance holds out. You will have additional co-pay. Usually 20% if you have a decent plan. In many cases the specialist or diagnostics may request the co-pay before they do the procedure.

This also assumes that the insurance company allows whatever treatment is recommended. If they don't you will have to fight them over it unless you have an advocate and either way the outcome is uncertain and your disease is progressing in the meantime. Imagine trying to deal with a bureaucracy while you are ill.

If you don't have insurance or if it runs out due to your inability to continue working or paying if it isn't employment based you will still be able to get care if you go to an emergency room.

They legally can't turn you away. OTOH, they can give minimal treatment and get you out of there as soon as they possibly can. I personally witnessed this with two uninsured friends. One who died as a result of inadaquate treatment.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD;426733,

. . . they can give minimal treatment and get you out of there as soon as they possibly can..

Just like any government Health Care System will. those who think otherwise are due for a rude awakening

Originally Posted by Navaja

Just like any government Health Care System will. those who think otherwise are due for a rude awakening

Being the original poster of this thread my intention was to poll people outside of the USA on their opinion of gov sponsored health care based on their experience. The last time I looked Florida was not outside of the USA.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Its interesting to note that every time you guys mention having to pay into the system the amounts are about the same as what I pay with my employer provided plan and the costs of that plan are similar as well.

But the comparison is not that simple. NHS provision is driven by non-profit motives. The problem (in my opinion) of the US-type system is that everything is driven by profit motive. It's all private sector. So how would I, as a medic for example, maximise my profit? Why, I'd simply offer the most expensive treatments, and manage care by maximising the amount of my time and expertise required. The outcome seems to be levels of treatment inappropriately OTT.

This profit motive in healthcare supports everything from the newest most expensive drugs (pharmas cheer) to unnecessary interventions (medics cheer) to peolpes' need to protect themselves against these inflated costs (insurers cheer).

At some point, the motive for profit comes crashing headlong into the interests of the patient. That is, if you believe in access to good treatment for all. If you believe that health (and other social basics like education) should be tiered like commerce, effectively blocking the poor's access to good treatment (or education), then an entirely privatised health system is as good as any I suppose.

Originally Posted by Navaja

Just like any government Health Care System will. those who think otherwise are due for a rude awakening

You're quite mistaken.

Last year during my wife's pregnancy we were served by a fantastic obstetrician and when my son was born it was in a state of the art hospital with complete care and attention. He was eventually delivered via emergency C-section where two surgeons joined our OB, two anesthetists and a small team of nurses. She was admitted on Thursday and on Sunday they asked her if she felt good about going home. She said no and it was a good thing because the jaundice started to flare and they were able to take care of it right away. They moved us to a private room even though we hadn't signed up for one and rolled in a UV Photo therapy booth where we stayed for another three days. The whole time the nurses were fantastically helpful and doctors visited us regularly to check up on my post operative wife and new son. Now this isn't a life threatening leukemia story or anything, but as a new father let me tell you it was some relief to have such attentive care for my family. I am so thankful to the whole team for what they did for us i can't really express it accurately in words. They were awesome!



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Little off topic, but have to ask, because i do not know.

In the U.S. is it mandatory for the employers to take a health insurance for their workers or does it base on the goodwill, tax reduction or something like that?

Originally Posted by majurey

My wife's practice has a 'strictly no pharma reps' policy. Those guys come cold calling and sneaking into practices asking for time with the doctors.

OTOH this is this is the way Drs over here get free samples for their patients. If you get free samples, you have benefited from this system.

Originally Posted by majurey

Next thing you know, they're trying to "oil the wheels of commerce" by giving away freebies. And I'm not talking about branded notepads and pens! My wife has personally been offered these things in the past (supposedly 'no strings'):

- expensive medical equipment, e.g. stethoscopes, pharyngoscopes, sphygmomanometers, etc.
- all expenses paid travel and board in a 4-star hotel to attend conferences
- countless dinner invitations (in our early twenties we accepted one invite and the tab at the end was nearly £1000 for 6 people)
- provision of free consultants to her practice
- paid-for places on expensive training sessions
- and much more

all currently illegal in the US. Things in the US were like this 20 years ago. Even Pens and notepads are no longer allowed here.

Originally Posted by majurey

The marketing budgets for pharmas must be sky-high, which has a knock-on effect on the price charged for their drugs. Prices that are paid for by the NHS which gets its money from taxpayers. So my wife and her partners just turn these guys away and instead prescribe according to CLINICAL judgements, as opposed to decisions which might be partly driven by a sense of owing, due to the big juicy greenback sweeteners that are given away.

I was staying in a hotel once about 15 years ago where a pharma was housing new reps in training. They told me they were being trained in dressing right, what to say to get into offices, to pretend interest in the docs interests, children, achievements, etc.