Health Care in the USA

**JimmyHAD** · 07-31-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by honedright

For those of you who support national health care, I hope you are following the Federal "Cash-4-Clunkers" program. One week in and already having problems.

And you want these people to manage your health care?

The 'problem' comes from the program being so popular that it has already run out of funding. If they had done as the previous administration did with the funding for the Iraq war and kept the cost off of the budget they would have no funding issues.

**honedright** · 07-31-2009, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Leighton

I know. The Declaration is not the law. The founding fathers wrote the Constitution and for whatever reason, did not see fit to grant us the inalienable rights espoused in the Declaration.

Interpret that as you will, but the past is the past.

The founding fathers did not grant us any inalienable rights. That seems to be the point you are missing.

Inalienable rights are granted by our creator. This is the truth that the founders held to be self-evident.

Rights granted by man can be taken away by man.

Rights granted by God supersede man's laws and cannot be taken away by man.

I believe that there is no room for interpretation on this. Past, present or future, it is self-evident.

**honedright** · 07-31-2009, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The 'problem' comes from the program being so popular that it has already run out of funding. If they had done as the previous administration did with the funding for the Iraq war and kept the cost off of the budget they would have no funding issues.

"I'm sorry Mr. Smith, but due to the popularity of our national health care program we have run out of funding. Pending the procurement of additional funds, please remove your catheter and your IV. We must ask you to leave the hospital.....sorry, have a nice day."

**thebigspendur** · 07-31-2009, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by honedright

"I'm sorry Mr. Smith, but due to the popularity of our national health care program we have run out of funding. Pending the procurement of additional funds, please remove your catheter and your IV. We must ask you to leave the hospital.....sorry, have a nice day."

"I'm sorry Mr Smith but you health insurance does not cover that type of cancer treatment you'll have to cut your treatment short and pay the 250 grand out of pocket. Your credit history indicates you own a home and have 50 grand in the bank. Sell your house and close you bank account to pay for your treatment. After that you can go on-line and beg for donations from people. have a nice day."

**Pyment** · 07-31-2009, 11:03 PM

Actually what happens (IIRC) is that the cash gets spent. The residence does not get sold. but the liquid assets get spent before they go on Medical Assistance. I know of someone going through this right now. He has to go to a long term health care facility because he is uninsured, on a ventilator and can't be weaned off. He is being required to sign over his life insurance policy, but he keeps the farm.

**RazorPete** · 07-31-2009, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

"I'm sorry Mr Smith but you health insurance does not cover that type of cancer treatment you'll have to cut your treatment short and pay the 250 grand out of pocket. Your credit history indicates you own a home and have 50 grand in the bank. Sell your house and close you bank account to pay for your treatment. After that you can go on-line and beg for donations from people. have a nice day."

But for the grace of God, any of us, with the wrong illness and an expensive treatment could suffer the same fate with the present private insurance system. Almost two thirds of people going into bankruptcy today in the US do it because of medical bills.

Medical Debt As a Cause of Bankruptcy Examined by House Subcommittee | Kansas City infoZine News | USA

**thebigspendur** · 08-01-2009, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Pyment

Actually what happens (IIRC) is that the cash gets spent. The residence does not get sold. but the liquid assets get spent before they go on Medical Assistance. I know of someone going through this right now. He has to go to a long term health care facility because he is uninsured, on a ventilator and can't be weaned off. He is being required to sign over his life insurance policy, but he keeps the farm.

In many cases unless you are low income when you go to the hospital you will be told what the bill is and that they want a hefty % up front and they have run your credit and finances and tell you to zero out your savings and in many cases tell you to apply for a medical credit card and when you can't pay the CC bill they up the finance charges to 25% or more and go to garnishee your wages. Then you can't pay your bills and mortgage so you have to sell your house and since they placed a lien on your house they get whatever money you make when you sell it.

**treydampier** · 08-01-2009, 02:03 AM

I have not really noticed this thread before but after filing through the pages it amazes me the point of views and lies people believe about healthcare in general. As a rising Doctor I can tell you that I am sick of people belly aching about Doctors getting paid. People on this site don't give their razors away, Classic Shaving, SRD, or any of the other forum sponsors don't give their products away, so why should a doctor.
One of my teachers is a family practice doc, he gets $15 from Medicare or Medicaid for seeing a patient in his office. He spent at least 7 years and probably close to $200,00 AFTER college to get his degree and training. He deserves to make more money than CEO's, bankers, razor makers, plumbers, electricians, or virtually any other career except for areas of medicine like Surgery that require more training. I am sick of people like construction company owners, commercial painters, electricians, or other fields complaining about having to provide insurance to their workers because of cost. I am also sick because no one blames the billions of dollars profited by insurance companies each year who make greater profits each year and pay less.
For example in 1989 a colon resection paid the surgeon about $4000. Now it pays $1500 if the person has good insurance.
Also the stats about infant mortality quoted and unavailable healthcare are idiots. The best care in the world is in the US. That is why a US trained doc can practice medicine anywhere in the world, but other docs must re-train to practice in the US. AS for the cost, you can go to any number of NYC hospitals or other areas of the US and watch the immigrants and irresponsible parent who rear their children to get pregnant at 16 years old and receive free government assistance. I told to a nurses aid in NYC who claimed that it would be cheaper to not work and apply for WIC (women-infants-children) than to work. The recent lawsuit also in FL where the hospital sent the illegal immigrant home and then the relative expected the American Taxpayers to provide hundreds of thousands of dollars of free healthcare to an ILLEGAL immigrant.
The answer is not nationalized healthcare either. If you think its better, than look at the actress Natasha Richardson who recently died. Canadian medicine is so cheap that she didn't receive a CT scan that would have diagnosed her and saved her life. Also the average tax rate for countries with national healthcare is at 10-30% higher than the US. So if the government taxes the US people (and it will) to that degree, we will go broke and hopefully all these small business owners who are making their $200,000-1,000,000,00 per year will think its cheaper to just pay for the insurance.
Finally the last issue is the lies about the cost of healthcare. The average 4 day stay in a hospital is billed at about $200-250K. It does not cost this, the hospitals bill this because for every responsible person who sacrifices if necessary for good insurance pays for every person who either does not work, is an immigrant who can't be traced to make pay, or to pay for 10 other people who "can't work" because of a bs excuse like anxiety.
My proposal is to do away with insurance period. Most people never maximize their insurance and the only person loosing is the doctors after working so hard they are now abandoning private practice because people think they should work for free basically. If the cost were calculated as what it really costs, and any illegal immigrants only allowed minimal care and deported once treated, and people paid a fee for service rather than lining the insurance companies pockets than everyone would be better off. Parents who rear irresponsible children should be responsible for them. Immigrants should not qualify for any government programs until they are made citizens or have proven that they pay taxes Only people who are disabled who can't physically work should not get any welfare. I propose workfare. If government starts making people support themselves and save some money as opposed to buying things they know they can't afford and cutting the fat and hand-outs then life will get better. Smaller government is the answer. Besides many medical students are abandoning the practice that can as well as some established physicians to do other things. They are usually very successful when they do so as well because they were usually already the most talented students when they were in college.

**AussiePostie** · 08-01-2009, 03:12 AM

I would like to know why the majority of Americans seem to be so against chipping in a few dollars to help out a fellow countryman who for some reason cannot afford private insurance eg, disabled, out of work, a veteran, pensioners. Is it a cultural thing or just a paranoia of some sort.

None of the other goverments with national health services take away your right to have private insurance, most will even give you a rebate for having it, 30% in Australia, all they ask is that you chip in 1.5% of your wage. Is this to much to ask to help out a fellow human being who is ill?

Just think about it, there are no guarentties in life and one day you could find yourself through no fault of your own disabled or unemployed and no longer able to afford private cover and if you became very ill or god forbid your children or wife, would you not want yourself or them to get cared for without having to loose every thing you have worked hard to obtain, a roof over your families heads, car, ect. to get better?

**gugi** · 08-01-2009, 03:21 AM