Thread: Health Care in the USA

Originally Posted by majurey

And you'd have a national health system to boot!

but at the expense of liberty. thus, a new country was created, and as jefferson would say, "the tree of liberty [was] refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Originally Posted by Pyment

Potential issues - family planning, abortion, and birth control, assisted suicide, tobacco, alcohol, obesity, high risk activities like scuba or hang gliding, vaccination, end-of-life, fast food, homeopathy, chiropractic, herbs, gun control, helmet laws, drug use etc

These can all be on the table as they are either directly part of health care or impact how much money the health care system is forced to spend on their consequences.

you hit the nail on the head, my friend. this is exactly the sort of slippery slope that I'm so keen to avoid. ANY mandatory, socialized plan will impinge upon the freedoms of those forced to enroll in it.

Originally Posted by jockeys

you hit the nail on the head, my friend. this is exactly the sort of slippery slope that I'm so keen to avoid. ANY mandatory, socialized plan will impinge upon the freedoms of those forced to enroll in it.

Then it will be time for a second American revolution. If you lived in Kalifornia I would say it is possible but in Texas ..... no way.

Originally Posted by jockeys

but at the expense of liberty. thus, a new country was created, and as jefferson would say, "the tree of liberty [was] refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I was just yankin' your chain, my friend!

[Takes tone of old Jewish mother]... "Liberty schmiberty. Oy! What good is liberty without your health, bubby?"

Originally Posted by gugi

yes, but why buy the health insurance in the first place? why not just pay for the health services you use when you use them again cash in hand.

This is a perfectly good option for those who are young and generally in good health. Why not, instead of paying a monthly premium, put the money in savings? Then when you do need to see a physician you can pay cash. I don't have the numbers at hand, but it would be interesting to compare the amount spent yearly on health insurance premiums/ unused services, and the amount that would actually be spent out-of-pocket on as-needed basis. I would recommend that someone who chooses this option refrain from snowboarding and other risky activities - that would make sense.

It would require some discipline, but so does keeping a democratic republic.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Then it will be time for a second American revolution. If you lived in Kalifornia I would say it is possible but in Texas ..... no way.

I think you seriously underestimate the proclivity of Texans to rebel.

Originally Posted by majurey

I was just yankin' your chain, my friend!

[Takes tone of old Jewish mother]... "Liberty schmiberty. Oy! What good is liberty without your health, bubby?"

I know you were kidding, but my point still stands.

And I would think older Jewish folks (especially of the european variety) would hold liberty quite dear. Health means nothing without liberty. It's just dying slower.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Freedom is a mindset.

Wow. That sounds like something right out of Atlas Shrugged. A frightening philosophy that is.

Originally Posted by honedright

This is a perfectly good option for those who are young and generally in good health. Why not, instead of paying a monthly premium, put the money in savings? Then when you do need to see a physician you can pay cash. I don't have the numbers at hand, but it would be interesting to compare the amount spent yearly on health insurance premiums/ unused services, and the amount that would actually be spent out-of-pocket on as-needed basis. I would recommend that someone who chooses this option refrain from snowboarding and other risky activities - that would make sense.

It would require some discipline, but so does keeping a democratic republic.

This is what I do for my family. If we can't cover some unforseen expense, who should I expect to cover it for us? I'd rather take the help of those who enjoy helping - and I accept that there may be millions of taxpayers who are happy to help others out in this way through mandatory taxation, but I would rather have the freedom to choose my charities. I have never been a fan of mandatory charity, but when I do end up having to pay into something by law (tax code), I am not opposed to drawing benefits from it when the law says I qualify to

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

People who live in countries with nationalized health care pay for it. It ain't free. They sleep better at night because insurance companies aren't denying coverage for pre-existing conditions or canceling their policies at the slightest excuse when they need them most.

Do they sleep better with the possibility that their government could decide that the medical service they need is non-essential? or that their case is not a priority, forcing them to wait for months, maybe years, in line behind others who are deemed priorities? or that their lifestyle choices could be determined to be too risky and costly to the health care system and therefore coverage is denied until appropriate lifestyle changes are made (in other words shape up or ship out)?

Obama has repeatedly made a point about controlling health care costs. How can costs be controlled without some cutting? Who's to decide what's cut and what's kept? What's necessary, what's not?

It all sounds great droning out of the mouth of a polished demagogue like Obama. But if you really listen to the words he's spilling out, nothing he says makes much sense.

Originally Posted by honedright

Wow. That sounds like something right out of Atlas Shrugged. A frightening philosophy that is.

"I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

Dumping HMO's is a good first step.

This model looks reasonable and workable: Switzerland: Health Care for All. Unless they come up with something better, if ever.

The Swiss and Dutch Health Insurance Systems: Universal Coverage and Regulated Competitive Insurance Markets, a comparison of 2 somewhat similar plans.