Thread: President of Europe is a Belgian

Originally Posted by Fido

By politicians who have ignored the wishes of the people. It was ever thus!

It's slightly more complicated than that, I think. European law is so immensely complicated that it literally takes a degree in European law to understand the EU (or its predecessors). Europe as we know it was shaped by men with visions (and the understandable desire of its peoples to keep my people from occupying then every 20 years), whose ideas were turned into laws. I'm a political scientist, but I do not understand the EU, at least not to a degree which enables me to take informed decisions. And that's probably the biggest problem: you simply have to believe that politicians and lawyers will get it right. For a nation like England with its high degree of independence, that is likely a lot harder to digest than for, say, Germans, who are traditionally more obedient.

I'm just darn happy that not all countries in Europe are members of EU.
BTW he is the president of the European Union not Europe.

I'm just glad it wasnt Blair!

The only thing that Tony Blair thinks about is Tony Blair. The guy (and his "government") already wrecked this country, and the thought of another X years of being told what to do by him would have been enough to make me emigrate!

Originally Posted by Otto

I'm just darn happy that not all countries in Europe are members of EU.
BTW he is the president of the European Union not Europe.

Can't help but ask why?
And which countries are you specifically reffering to?

Originally Posted by mainaman

Can't help but ask why?
And which countries are you specifically reffering to?

I’m referring to Norway. [See my location in the side bar] I appreciate the fact that we (Norwegians) are not a member of a larger union but are more independent than most of the other European countries. Being an oil rich nation rocks having a “socialist” government doesn’t.

We were in unions with Danmark and Sweden, and we didn't like that much...

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

It's slightly more complicated than that, I think. European law is so immensely complicated that it literally takes a degree in European law to understand the EU (or its predecessors). Europe as we know it was shaped by men with visions (and the understandable desire of its peoples to keep my people from occupying then every 20 years), whose ideas were turned into laws. I'm a political scientist, but I do not understand the EU, at least not to a degree which enables me to take informed decisions. And that's probably the biggest problem: you simply have to believe that politicians and lawyers will get it right. For a nation like England with its high degree of independence, that is likely a lot harder to digest than for, say, Germans, who are traditionally more obedient.

So true, and I am really glad it is done like this.
By having 'the people' vote, you don't need more than a couple of punch lines (Yes we can!) and a tv personality.

International politics is a complicated matter, and I have more faith in our elected officials to understand it than in the people who will only vote for whatever they heard on the news.

This way there has to be concensus building and compromise, rather than media campaigns and hardline opinions.

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

It's slightly more complicated than that, I think. European law is so immensely complicated that it literally takes a degree in European law to understand the EU (or its predecessors). Europe as we know it was shaped by men with visions (and the understandable desire of its peoples to keep my people from occupying then every 20 years), whose ideas were turned into laws. I'm a political scientist, but I do not understand the EU, at least not to a degree which enables me to take informed decisions. And that's probably the biggest problem: you simply have to believe that politicians and lawyers will get it right. For a nation like England with its high degree of independence, that is likely a lot harder to digest than for, say, Germans, who are traditionally more obedient.

I have only just looked back on this thread.


"you simply have to believe that politicians and lawyers will get it right"

What an extraordinary thing to say or believe!

I seem to recall that Hitler was a "politician" originally elected by the people.

I understand the vision of Europe as a means of avoiding future wars. But that was not why the British people joined the EU. We joined because we believed it to be in our economic interest.

Fear of war and terrorism should never be allowed to determine the way we live. It is the appeasement of evil.

As to believing politicians will get it right - what an idea! We may as well live on another planet. Politicians are motivated by many things. Sadly, the most compelling is a love of power.

I was a local authority Chief Executive. I can tell you this: on all the truly important decisions, the biggest single factor that determined the way a politician voted was the effect on his party, not the people.

Do you seriously believe that politicians in general put the people before their party?

I would love to live in a world where I could trust politicians. But I don't. Yet. They must be subjected at all times to rigorous scrutiny. Thank goodness for a free press. The media are not perfect but they are our protection against the excesses of politicians.

Originally Posted by Fido

I was a local authority Chief Executive. I can tell you this: on all the truly important decisions, the biggest single factor that determined the way a politician voted was the effect on his party, not the people.

Do you seriously believe that politicians in general put the people before their party?

That matches my first-hand experience in several political institutions as well... you vote the party line on important things, if you vote against it you'll need a new party before the next election cycle. "The people" are only important when you are in the minority or when the vote has no impact on the bottom line.

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

you simply have to believe that politicians and lawyers will get it right.

Wow!!...Just wow!! Did you really say that Robin?

Originally Posted by JMS

Wow!!...Just wow!! Did you really say that Robin?

Oh, absolutely. As you well know, the last two attempts to approach the subject of running our country differently ended in totalitarian dictatorships (one headed by an Austrian postcard painter, the other by a demi-French roofer), whose side effects include, but aren't limited to, millions of casualties, areas the size of the US run down and impoverished, and Jewish life in Central Europe basically extinct.

You are, of course, entitled to delusions of grandeur and avant-garde, thinking that Joe Random is fully equipped to rule a country, and certainly George W. Bush, and that steroid addled Austrian in CA can be used as examples. Diplomatically put, however, I prefer to be ruled by scientists, rather than cowboys or barbarians. But maybe that's just me.